CWJ

Hey

What exactly did you mean when you quoted the verse from "Farcians". What was the real verse you quoted. Check under "Speaking in Tongues" post..

Thank you.

But swimming would be "works" that are done by the one being saved.

Jesus does it all.....the "work" is done.....

Not a good analogy to the Gospel fact.

Rev 5:2-3:

"And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worhty to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon."

The seals are hard to get opened, even a strong angel can't......

But we see in later verses that.....

JESUS CAN! and we're told when.......like you said Rick....scripture shows us the

SURE DEAL!

Amen...and... amen! Good Rick, and simple, which is in Christ.

Isn't the definition of saved.....means to be saved from the lake of fire?

So...if you wind up in the lake of fire....you wasn't SAVED!

Can't claim saved...if you wind up lost!

How can we be saved? Check John 3:36....."He that believeth on the Son" - that's what we're called to do.

I LOVE the O.S.T.L.T.R.T.R crowd. They're really so scrutable. Suppose it were true that a person once saved could be re-lost, a term unknown in the Bible. Suppose such a person who believes in O.S.T.L.T.R.T.R., to gain heaven would then have to be saved all over again.

But suppose the person in question never did get saved the second time and, departing this life a lost person, went finally to the lake of fire - after having been once saved.

QUERY - In what sense, then, was he first saved? What was he saved from? Was he saved from the penalty of sin? No, for he did not escape the lake of fire. Was he saved from the power of sin? No, for he fell back into sin and died a lost man. And most assuredly he was not saved from the very presence of sin, for none this side of heaven have yet been saved from that (1 John 1:8). So what was he saved from? The answer is: NOTHING AT ALL!

He may have thot he was saved. He may have felt saved. He may have even acted as tho he were saved, but in the final analysis. he was SAVED FROM NOTHING.

Salvation, to be anything more than a mere term MUST be everlasting (John 3:16). Any person who has been saved has been ETERNALLY saved (John 10). No one is saved until he is eternally saved. Anyone who dies in a lost condition never was saved at all in the first place.

DOES THIS MEAN WE MUST WAIT until this life is over to find out? No. We may be saved NOW and KNOW it. This clear from 1 Corinthians 1:18, where the Apostle Paul refers to "us which ARE saved." Present tense. How can we be saved? Check John 3:36....."He that believeth on the Son" - that's what we're called to do. "Hath" - that's WHEN you get it. "Everlasting life" - that's HOW LONG it lasts. Thank You, Lord Jesus!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!

But we must also cooperate in

Let Jesus baptise you in the Holy Spirit, for that eternaly cleansed spirit.

Easy. Repent.

1Peter 3:21

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Philippians 4:3 has a reference to a person named Clement. He wrote a few letters that may have made up part of the original texts that were to be selected from to complete the Bible. Here are two quotes from him:

"On account of his hospitality and godliness, Lot was saved out of Sodom when all the country round was punished by means of fire and brimstone, the Lord thus making it manifest that He does not forsake those that hope in Him, but gives up such as depart from Him to punishment and torture. For Lot's wife, who went forth with him, being of a different mind from himself and not continuing in agreement with him [as to the command which had been given them], was made an example of, so as to be a pillar of salt unto this day. This was done that all might know that those who are of a double mind, and who distrust the power of God, bring down judgment on themselves and become a sign to all succeeding generations." (First Epistle Of Clement To The Corinthians, Chapter 11)

"Let us, then not only call Him Lord, for that will not save us.

I have asked this many times and it has gone completely ignored.

How can a doctrine (OSAS) be true considering nobody taught it for 1,500 years?

Well....how do you know this? That's a loooong time!

Actually the scriptures have taught OSAS from the beginning.

You say "nobody"....I say the One....our Saviour Jesus Christ!

It is true , Godly :il: to save a sinner to the uttermost, to give eternal life where it is not deserved on merit of acts or works.......

I think too many are just "clocking in" at church and going on with their lives after the time clock at church is punched.

What's needed are more Bereans. Nobly searching the scriptures.

Some good reading here:

http://www.ntrf.org/

Now Rick.......you know that is one of those

once saved then lost believers

But....I never can get it....what was they saved from in the first place?

I agree with neither also! I have done an entire study about this and have summarized it at Perfect Will Ministries focus page

The main things are:

1 - Salvation is a gift and cannot be earned or lost once accepted.

2 - Rewards are not automatic. They must be earned.

This has given me new understanding of my time here on earth.

Has anyone else received this revelation?

I agree 100%

Working for those crowns of reward!

If you will read what I wrote you will see i wrote "I think"....

I get the feeling you're on my case somewhat......

What makes True Gospel of Christ different from any other belief/religion is the unconditional gift of everlasting life.

We do nothin at all to merit salvation, unlike every other teaching in existance.

We have a saviour, He did the work of saving.

Yes,...we must turn to Him, but without this faith it is impossible to please Him.

Call it a condition, requirement, whatever...but it is not a "work" on the part of the believer.

We are saved by the answer to this good conscience we have toward God.

1Peter 3;21

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us ( not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

By this we see that we are baptised with the Holy spirit, creating our "born again" state of being. NOT by any "works", that is to say, by any "cleaning up" our sins.

Jesus saves us just in the condition we are, and He continues to work on us to conform to His likeness.

Read Eph 2:8-10.

myrrh.....Read Hebrews 11

Hebrews 11:1..."Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

heb 11:6..."But without faith it is impossible to please Him; for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him."

myrrh....we through this faith are able to believe the Gospel that Jesus is

the only way

Eph 4:5..."One Lord, one faith, one baptism"

Blessings to you myrrh.....

Quote:

Judas was lost from the get-go I think. He was never given by God.

totally mans word. These words are not in The Bible. Jesus knew because of His total connection to The Father who knew every choice Judas would make, and He instructed Jesus to call him to the Apostleship. When Judas heard Jesus preach the kingdom, he believed and started in the salvation process, and followed Jesus.

My personal opinion on why he did what he did is he thought Jesus would reveal who He was by using the miracles Judas had seen Him use to deliver others from their bondages. And I believe he was deceived into this by satan.

These words are not in the Bible!!!!!!!!!!

Hello William.

Ok...what happens when one is saved from their sins......?

1Tim 4:8...upon some meditation on this...to say that this verse is stating eternal life as a "future" posession to me is contradictory to this:

1John 5:13.."These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye HAVE eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

"the life that now is, and of that which is to come." In light of 1John 5;13 I say that the "life that now is", is speaking of your present posession of eternal life, as far as having it in this flesh existance.

"and of that which is to come"...well, here we see it will take on a different existance after the resurrection.

Still the same eternal life from being Born Again.

Your other two verses in no way determine our eternal life as a "future" posession. They proclaim God's promise to us from the foundation of the world.

How can we be "brought back into fellowship" if we are born dead? We never had a fellowship with Him. Until being Born Again.

Twice dead?

His son...you are waaaay off!

"his portion with the unbelievers"

If he was to get something reserved for unbelievers only, then I see it's clear he's an unbeliever.

No, I know of no scripture that says.." a true saint will never walk away from grace."

But, as this debate has dragged on, plenty of scriputre has been explained that clearly teaches such a fact!

One clear method of issue dodging in debate is to attack the opposing debator, such as character slander.( I'm adding words to scripture!)

Why not tell me what one is saved from if they were "in grace" but then "walked away"?

I suppose you all agree that saved is synonymous with having eternal life and with being born again of God; so if one once has this, and "loses it" as you all say one can.......

THEN

WHAT WAS THIS ONE EVER SAVED FROM!

Saved is definitely a New Test. term. What ever do you suppose God meant!?

SAVED...lost...SAVED....lost...SAVED...........how may times?

Logic here is twisted for you guys, Saved connotates a permanent

state of being!

And....scripture clearly teaches this!

Jesus fullfilled scripture...so...He picked a devil to betray Him...as to fullfill scriptures.

Judas is portrayed as evil hearted throughout the time with Jesus.

"that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

Good post Rick

So...to be closer to the "original" tradition...eat unleavened bread.

But it is Ok to eat angel food cake?

If they had eaten of it....then a BIG explosion!

however, knowing that Jesus chose Judas long before judas was born, judas was also chosen to be an apostle, was ordained by God to cast out demons. study it again. i posted all the scriptures. Judas was "saved", although that term was not used at that period of time. and then Christ gave him the morsel that allowed Satan to enter into him. and THEN judas fell because of his transgression.

i still don't understand how people can take something so simple, so clearly written in black and white, and make it so darn complicated.

What was Judas "saved" from? If you think he wound up in eternal damnation. And God knew beforehand the outcome, how can you say he was "saved' for awhile even?

Matt 19:25.." When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, who then can be SAVED ?"

Looks like they did have that term at that period of time.

What if Judas, (being in heart a thief), never participated in casting out demons and such?

Scripture doesn't tell us he did.

What if being un-saved all along he just kept the money, and "looked" like he was part of the team?

It's so very possible to think that, as scripture only tells us the bad about Judas.

mmmm?

Mmmmmm...this is becoming very interesting. Look at these verses:

Matt 10:4.."Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him."

Matt 12:31.."Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

"All manner of sin"...shall be forgiven.

John 12:4.."Then saith one of his disciples, Judas iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,...(5)....Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?...(6)....This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a theif, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein."

mmmmm.....

John 17:2...."As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.....(3)....And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

John 17:12.."While I was with them in the world, I kept them in my name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

Judas was lost from the get-go I think. He was never given by God.

Jude 24..."Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling.........."