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I started a new thread about the sacrifice of Jesus. continued from the catholic saved thread... To me Revelation 13:8 could be translated Jesus (the lamb) was killed (was slain) from mankind (creation of the world). When it says he was put to death...sounds like crucifixion killed him...and out of the control of Jesus I believe Jesus chose to die, otherwise no one would have had the power to kill him. My point is he was killed by the Romans and the Jews. Shiloh357 thinks he chose to die and no one killed him When the heathens sacrificed people they forced people to die. Nobody forced Jesus to be a sacrifice..he chose it...he laid it down of his own accord...he went as a willing innocent lamb...He even felt forsaken by his own Father...forsaken means abandoned...and he said the same thing all Children of God will say at their last breath...Father, into your hands I commit my spirit....as far as being at 3:00...That is a God thing...I don't believe in coincidence..God the Father was in contro... Mankind made the ultimate sacrifice to God the Father for all of mankinds sin by sacrificing his Son Jesus. Mankind didnt realize what they were doing...but they fulfilled the will of Almighty God... I don't view it this way...because it takes the focus away from the Cross. For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18 I feel the only way to really understand the Wrath of Almighty God is to understand what we (the human race) have done and the need for remorse and repentence. The following parable attempts to explain the consequences of betraying Jesus.. . I know how Shiloh357 feels...Do the rest of you feel Jesus death is meaningless if Jesus was killed, crucified by mankind? Shiloh357 said that is how we are to view it....I am not sure who the we is because it sure is not me...maybe this whole board feels that way...and that is the we he is talking about... This is a board what do you think? you either believe Jesus A) chose to die ......so mankind had the power to kill him. or B) chose to die ......mankind had no part in his death. Thanks for any feedback.