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Revelation 7:9 It then moves on to one of the elders asking John if he knows who they are, and the elder saying they came out of the great tribulation and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Not tribulation martyrs, but obviously something else. This comes after the opening of the scroll and the seven seals- I'm paraphrasing, here. Here's what I'm finding interesting about this particular part of Revelation- let's suppose for the sake of conjecture, we'll read it as it is written- it seems to be saying that after the opening of the sixth seal there is some sort of earthquake, sun turns black, moon turns red, the heavens 'receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.', and then kings, princes, generals, rich, mighty, everyone hid in caves and rocks and mountains begging to be hid from "the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?" Ok- so I'm wondering a couple of things, here: 1. Are those who are standing before the throne with palm branches those who have been raptured? Because it certainly would seem to be so, at first (or 20th) reading- they have 'washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb", which I'm thinking is salvation and not martyrdom? 2. Obviously, the 'great day of God's wrath' is coming, those who are begging for the rocks and mountains to fall on them, and hiding in the caves (and it's stating everyone, not just rich/generals/kings/princes...) knew exactly what was coming - In a previous verse (6:9-11), we have those who had been slain "because of God's word and the testimony they had maintained", but I would wonder if these are tribulation martyrs, or...? 3. Then, there is the seventh seal and silence in heaven for about half an hour-and then it continues with the angel throwing the censer filled with fire from the altar down to the earth, and the thunder, lightening, and earthquake that ensues followed by the seven trumpets. So! I guess my original question would be: do you think this is the rapture happening before the wrath of God, but after some pretty serious things have already begun on earth....like they seem to be doing these days? Secondly....it would seem when the sky rolled up, etc., that if this, indeed, was the rapture- that those on earth left knew exactly what was going down. Thoughts?