What did God create first?

[Guest]

.... Its not so much what God does, what Jesus does and what the Holy Spirit does, but just who God is, what His plan for man is and then we can see how the Word, now Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are involved in God's plan for man and the good of the entire universe.....

.... The tribulation on Earth will not affect the Holy Spirit, so why should He go and leave saints here who will be in desperate need of Him? How could they withstand these things and how could others be saved?....

Amen Dear Brother Amen!

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Love, Your Brother Joe

[HouseofGrace]

Genesis 1:1

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

[Guest Ken Rank]

Well done on your explanation. Because you took time to compile your thoughts, it would be irresponsible of me to comment without going through each point you make first, and then, if I have a disagreement, reasoning out why. So allow me that time, I will respond in a day or two. In the meantime, you didn't directly answer my questions so I pose them again. In short, what does the Father do that the Son does not do....in other words, what function does the Father perform that the Son does not. Likewise, what does the Son do that the Holy Spirit does not?

I will say in advance that I see Elohim as One, yet he has manifested himself as and through various forms. I do not however, separate Him into separate unique persons united as one. I believe there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for the many verses that indicate a separation in persons. Anyway, let me get to your post, and when you get a minute, answer those couple of questions for me. They are important to my response.

Peace to you.

Ken

Are you saying that you believe in the Oneness doctrine?

I was an agnostic for 29 years....I simply did not know what to believe. At 29 I was baptized in a Baptist church, was asked to leave a year later for asking too many questions (I kid you not) and continued my torrid pace of studying until now, I am 43. I had no ideological background, no built in doctrine or dogma, no axes to grind. If you ask me about oneness, modalism, pre-millenialism, armenianism, Calvinism, etc.....I have no answers, I don't know what those terms mean. I simply pray about and read scripture, and draw conclusions first based on that. I read few books and commentaires prefering to wait God out for his answers.

In your terms, I am probably oneness....but I seriously doubt that really covers how I see God. For example, I have learned through the past 14 years that most oneness believers have little to no tolerance of the trinity folks. Sad, because neither of them is exactly right. God is bigger than we understand, and both sides have flaws. On the trinity side of things, rarely do these folks take the OT into account, instead, their born into dispensational view has God broken down into three equal parts....but that equation ignores the fact that God existed as a rock that followed the Israelites in the wilderness for FAR longer than he was the Son. Does that no count for anything? He has been made manifest in 7 or 8 ways that I can count off the top of my head, trinity confines him to three. Yet, I don't have a problem with the trinitarian until they divide God into three unique and separate parts. When that happens, and they rarely realize it nor will admit to it when confronted, they have made three gods. For example, if you say the Father is God, and the Son is God....but the Father is NOT the Son nor the Son the Father....then can you see that you have made two gods? Both are God but neither are each other....they then are two, not one. On the other hand, oneness who accepts scriptural terms like "God is one" seen over 800 times, fails to properly understand how God can be more than one without being un-united. There is a medium, a middle ground, that ties the two together. Unfurtunately, I can't teach it, that understanding comes from God alone. Pray for it, that knowledge will come.

Peace to you.

Ken

[Guest Ken Rank]

Greetings Haz.

Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. I had a conference in another state that took up much of last week, and then some family time, etc. Finally back in the saddle.

I write today just to share some food for thought. I specifically asked you what makes the Father different than the Son, the Son different from the Spirit. Here are a few items for your consideration.

1. The Spirit in you. While it is generally accepted that the Holy Spirit, the 3rd person in the trinity is in you, I submit the latter might not be the case. Consider:

- Rom. 8:9 says that we are not in the flesh because the Spirit of God is in us. It then says if we do not have the Spirit of Christ in us, we do not belong to God.

- Col. 1:27 simply says that Christ is in you.

- Gal. 4:6 states that the Spirit of the Son is in you.

- Matt. 10:20 states that it is the Spirit of your Father that spoke in them.

- 1 Cor. 6:19 states that our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

- John 16:13 states that the Spirit of Truth will come and guide us.

Then, we take into account the words of Messiah himself. He taught us in John 14:26 a few things very pertinent to this topic. First, that the Holy Spirit is the Comforter, and the Comforter will teach us all things. He also states in John 14:26, that the Father will send the Comforter. Yet, in John 15:26 says that Messiah himself will send the Comforter. Lastly, in John 14:18 he says that he will not leave us

Edited April 13, 2009 by Ken Rank