Quantum Physics and the Voice of God

[Guest Strservant]

There is only one explanation of why the quantum strings are coherent enough to create the symphony of order that we know as our existence. These quantum strings, or rather these "notes from a violin string" are actually the commandments for creation spoken by God and echoed for eternity.

So, according to this, crimes that criminals commit or Adam and Eve eating from the tree, or anything that we do -- it is not really our fault because we are God's echo, God told us to do all this, he even told the AIDS virus to do what it does.

Really interesting....

Not really Osiris. God maintains the fabric of our existence. If someone hand sews you a new coat, they have no control over the fact that you might decide to drag it through the mud.

God also created free will. It is not His will for us to be robots or puppets, but free thinkers. Because of this will for us to think on our own, God will not force us to choose right from wrong. That is our choice, and man has a very bad habit of choosing wrong a majority of the time. Especially when man does not maintain a personal relationship with God. It's sort of like rebellious teens that get into all sorts of trouble because their relationship with their parents is very weak or practically non-existent.

It is not in the plans of the parents for their kids to become drug addicts, dabble in witchcraft or shack up with someone and get pregnant. But they have free will and short of disowning them, there's nothing the parents can really do about it except continue to love them and try to steer them back in the right direction.

If we continue to rebel against God, eventually He is forced to disown us just like the parents of rebellious teens.

However, these things also happen for reasons. Our accountability for our actions also help us to mature, once we face our responsiblities. Since death is merely a transition from this life to the next, no one should be angry at God for taking a loved one away from them either through disease, war or by any other means. The same is true of any negative event in our lives. We should never feel ill toward God for these things, but view them as a litmus test against our character and how we are able to handle such events. There can be some extremely grueling tests through negative events, but in the end it should only serve to bring us closer to God rather than farther away.

Feelings of anger against God for negative events in our lives are the result of selfishness and are usually also wrapped by guilt. Sometimes we are blinded by it and can only see the immediate negative effect of a negative event instead of the long term positive effect.

VRSpock,

You are to be commended for your thoughtful answer to Osiris when it is obvious he was in some ways mocking a wonderful post by you. Thank you for being an example and thank you for this interesting thread.

Respectfully,

Strservant

[BobTriez]

You are to be commended for your thoughtful answer to Osiris when it is obvious he was in some ways mocking a wonderful post by you.

I wouldn't say he's mocking....I thought that at first with him too( Osiris ) a month back; I thought he was simply being argumentative....but, I think he's searching. He has questions and is asking them in ways & on terms that he needs answered. So....Osiris, this time I'm kinda on your side of things. You have a lot of questions that most Christians seem to assume as givens ( which for us they are ). On the flip side, we ( Christians ) are defensive about God and we will defend Him to death....surely you can appreciate our side as well ?

I guess all I'm asking is respect.....on both sides of the discussion. I'm not saying to cave in....we Christians are to stay focused & I'm not saying to give in...we just need to learn how to be tolerant ( not accepting, but tolerant ) of others' views.

Hope that made sense

In HIM,

Bob

[Guest Strservant]

You are to be commended for your thoughtful answer to Osiris when it is obvious he was in some ways mocking a wonderful post by you.

I wouldn't say he's mocking....I thought that at first with him too( Osiris ) a month back; I thought he was simply being argumentative....but, I think he's searching. He has questions and is asking them in ways & on terms that he needs answered. So....Osiris, this time I'm kinda on your side of things. You have a lot of questions that most Christians seem to assume as givens ( which for us they are ). On the flip side, we ( Christians ) are defensive about God and we will defend Him to death....surely you can appreciate our side as well ?

I guess all I'm asking is respect.....on both sides of the discussion. I'm not saying to cave in....we Christians are to stay focused & I'm not saying to give in...we just need to learn how to be tolerant ( not accepting, but tolerant ) of others' views.

Hope that made sense

In HIM,

Bob

Bob,

If I came on too strong then I apoligize, however, it is getting to the point on WB that no matter what someone seems to put up and how elloquently it is put, even if we are saying that this is just a thought not saying it is fact, we have Scientific Atheist or Vanilla Gorilla or someone else that has to totally tear it down. I understand this is a debate forum and I don't have any problem with that fact, however, it is getting to the point that we could simply say "I wish everyone hapiness" and someone would rip into it. If this was not Osiris's intent then let me apologize right now. If it is though, it is getting a bit too much.

Respectfully,

Strservant

[Osiris]

You are to be commended for your thoughtful answer to Osiris when it is obvious he was in some ways mocking a wonderful post by you.

I wouldn't say he's mocking....I thought that at first with him too( Osiris ) a month back; I thought he was simply being argumentative....but, I think he's searching. He has questions and is asking them in ways & on terms that he needs answered. So....Osiris, this time I'm kinda on your side of things.

Thank you Bob Triez, I am glad you are... :t:

You have a lot of questions that most Christians seem to assume as givens ( which for us they are ).  On the flip side, we ( Christians ) are defensive about God and we will defend Him to death....surely you can appreciate our side as well ?

Correct...

I guess all I'm asking is respect.....on both sides of the discussion. I'm not saying to cave in....we Christians are to stay focused & I'm not saying to give in...we just need to learn how to be tolerant ( not accepting, but tolerant ) of others' views.

Hope that made sense

In HIM,

Bob

I whole heartedly agree sir

[Osiris]

Bob,

If I came on too strong then I apoligize,

Apology accepted...

however, it is getting to the point on WB that no matter what someone seems to put up and how elloquently it is put, even if we are saying that this is just a thought not saying it is fact, we have Scientific Atheist or Vanilla Gorilla or someone else that has to totally tear it down.

Sorry, I read the post and responded with what I think it logically boils down to, and I felt that some of my responses were tore down by some members.

I understand this is a debate forum and I don't have any problem with that fact, however, it is getting to the point that we could simply say "I wish everyone hapiness" and someone would rip into it.  If this was not Osiris's intent then let me apologize right now.  If it is though, it is getting a bit too much.

Respectfully,

Strservant

I wouldn't rip into someone's post wishing everyone happiness, I would wish more happiness in return

[Guest Strservant]

Bob,

If I came on too strong then I apoligize,

Apology accepted...

however, it is getting to the point on WB that no matter what someone seems to put up and how elloquently it is put, even if we are saying that this is just a thought not saying it is fact, we have Scientific Atheist or Vanilla Gorilla or someone else that has to totally tear it down.

Sorry, I read the post and responded with what I think it logically boils down to, and I felt that some of my responses were tore down by some members.

I understand this is a debate forum and I don't have any problem with that fact, however, it is getting to the point that we could simply say "I wish everyone hapiness" and someone would rip into it.

[nebula]

Define free will.

Show proof that there is a such thing as free will.

No! No!

Nihilism!

Argh!

Run away! Run away!

Where's my towel? The towel is the answer to everything!

OK, seriousness aside. . . .

Don't you think it commendable of vrsock to present something to bridge the gap for Christians between Christianity and science? With all the probs we've been having with that on the "Age of Earth" and stuff threads? I know your beliefs are different on this issue and would thus have a different reaction to such a proposal as was written. But hey - be thankful Christians are not fighting against science for a change and accepting its compatability!

Don't you think that's worth celebrating?

Whew-hoo!

[Guest mscoville]

Yeah I think it's cool too.

~ M

[Guest mscoville]

Osiris,

So you don't think crimes and drug addiction are bad things? I see where you're coming from, or did you misread me and I misread you? Ha.

~ Martin

[VRSpock]

Define free will.

Show proof that there is a such thing as free will.

Do animals have free will? What creates free will, or where does free will come from?

To me it's difficult to question the existence of free will. "I think, therefore I am". If we could truely define free will, then true artificial intelligence for computer systems would be just over the horizon. Instead, we have AI that is a complicated cause and effect system void of any real intelligence. To me, it's like asking if sentient life truely exists. Free will is a pre-requisite of sentient life, since it is also a trait of consciousness.

Free will is best observed when the stereotypical preacher's daughter, who's been raised properly and taught right from wrong and had the best possible family environment to grow up in defies reason and goes completely out of her way to defile herself out of rebellion.

Free will is best observed when someone who grew up in the worst environment imaginable and lived a life filled to the brim with sin suddenly does an about face and pulls themselves out of that state of existence to become a person of great character.

Free will is the wild card variable the makes it to where no one's actions can be 100 percent predictable because on a whim, they may do something completely unexpected and not in sync with every other aspect of their existence.

Free will is when a child begins to use the word "no" to their parents.

God relinquishes control over us when He gives us free will.

When I was a child around the age of 3 or 4, it was through my free will that I slapped my hand down on a glowing red hot stove eye. I remember doing this as a child. I'm not sure why I did it, but most likely it was because I found the red glow of interest and wanted to touch it to better understand it. It was not my mom's will for me to do that, but she didn't get to me in time to stop me. God gives us free will so that we can make our own decisions and become our own beings. We do things that cause harm to us and God won't just forcefully yank us away from the hot eye burner because to do so would be taking away our free will.

If you forcefully bully a child to follow the rules by overpowering them, they will hate you for it. They have to willfully obey. If God forced us to not commit sins, we would hate Him for it. We have to willfully obey. It's simply the way we were created. We cannot do something if we do not want to do it.