The Trinity

[Guest Calamity]

And, considering that Jesus is the Creator of EVERYTHING ( Col 1:16, John 1:1 ), how could one even argue that He is in any way created ?

No argument. HE created HIMSELF and everything else.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug:

I'm not sure how that is possible.

To me, that would blur the distinction between the Creator and the creation, if the Creator created Himself and creation both.

[WayneB]

And, considering that Jesus is the Creator of EVERYTHING ( Col 1:16, John 1:1 ), how could one even argue that He is in any way created ?

No argument. HE created HIMSELF and everything else.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug:

I'm not sure how that is possible.

To me, that would blur the distinction between the Creator and the creation, if the Creator created Himself and creation both.

I agree.

[Guest Caspar Meyer]

Father, Son and Spirit

The name of the Lord God is Yahweh (Jehovah) and HE is our Father (Isa 63:16). The title Father does not designate another God or being but is simply a description of the relationship between the Lord God (Yahweh) and man. Jesus Christ said that God is SPIRIT. Here again, Jesus did not say that the Spirit is another being , person or god, but simply that the essence of God is Spirit. GOD THE FATHER IS THE ETERNAL INVISIBLE HOLY SPIRIT and HE is ONE only and not three .

This only one God revealed himself in the flesh in Jesus Christ. The nature of God which is SPIRIT,combined with the nature of man (flesh) Does this fact constitute two gods or persons? Defenitely not Acts 2 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith GOD, I will pour out of my SPIRIT upon all flesh:and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my SPIRIT.

This is not the second or third person or Spiritof God, which does not exist, but

the only ONE GOD who is SPIRIT ! Psalm 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy Holy Spirit from me.

12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free Spirit.

Psalm 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy Spirit they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

Psalm l39:7 Wither shall I go from thy Spirit or wither shall I flee from thy presence?

Psalm 143:10 Teach me to do thy will; for thou art my God, thy Spirit is good; lead me into the land of uprightness.

Proverbs 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my Spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

Eph. 4:30 And grieve not the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Isaiah 40:13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counselor hath taught him?

Thessalonians 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but GOD, who hath also given us His Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

14 That good thing which was commited unto thee keep by the Holy Spirit which dwelleth in us.

These scriptures do not talk about a second or third spirit, but about the only one God who is Spirit. Whenever the scriptures mention the names of the Lord God, Jehovah, God Almighty, the Highest, the most High, our Father, it refers to the invisible HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD. He is our King, Redeemer, Saviour, Judge, Creator, Shepherd, Comforter, and in the New Testament He did all his works in and through Jesus Christ.

Christ is the Father according to his Spirit. God manifest in the flesh. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Christ is the Spirit

1Cor 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ

2Cor 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken way.

17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one. (Not two nor three !!!!!)

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10

[BobTriez]

Caspar Meyer,

Question for ya; I'm having a hard time reading your intent with this last post you made so could you clarify something for me ? Do you or do you not believe in the Trinity ?

Just wondering.....

In HIM

Bob

[Guest Calamity]

Three Gods, no. Three Persons, eternally existing making up one God, yes.

CM:

This is not the second or third person or Spiritof God, which does not exist, but

the only ONE GOD who is SPIRIT !

If there's only one person of God, then why does three appear throughout the Bible as separate persons? Why does Jesus, if He's only a manifestation of God, and not a Person of God, converse with the Father? Why does He talk about the Holy Spirit as a "he", if it's not a person of God?

John.14

[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

CM:

The following verses of Gen 1:2 start out with the words :"and God made. and God said". The expression of the eternal invisible Spirit of God is his word and not another god or person .

I disagree. The Word was with God, as a separate eternal being. The Word was Jesus:

John.1

[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[2] The same was in the beginning with God.

[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

[4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

CM:

These scriptures do not talk about a second or third spirit, but about the only one God who is Spirit. Whenever the scriptures mention the names of the Lord God, Jehovah, God Almighty, the Highest, the most High, our Father, it refers to the invisible HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD. He is our King, Redeemer, Saviour, Judge, Creator, Shepherd, Comforter, and in the New Testament He did all his works in and through Jesus Christ.

Actually, before the New Testament, works were done by Jesus. He was the Creator.

It certainly sounds like two persons of God here where Jesus was praying. He was with God before the world began and was glorified.

Jn.17:5 "And now Father glorify me together with , yourself, with the glory that I had with you before the world began."

God never changes. (Mal. 3:6). According to you, God changes over and over, as the Father, and as the Son, and as the Holy Spirit, but only one person - God. That doesn't sound right. If God changes like that, first of all, it goes against Scripture, and second, then He couldn't be eternal. If He changes, then whatever He changed to would be God, and whatever He was before changing, would no longer be.

God is a Trinity, always has been, and therefore never changes. If God is not a Trinity, then He changes, like His Word says he does not.

[Guest Caspar Meyer]

To Russell

Who is Jesus Christ?

1Tim 3: 16 And beyond controversy, great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Is this clear? The only ONE GOD was manifest in the Son of man Jesus Chrrist and not a second person or god.

Ps 2: 7

[Ovedya]

Caspar,

How far did you get with the folks over at Christian Chat Forum with this? What makes you believe that you will get much further here?

[BobTriez]

God created HIMSELF an man to do his work of salvation in HIM. In other words, Christ is man (flesh) and God according to his Spirit. The essence of God is Spirit and HE joined the flesh. One God (Spirit) in one man and not two nor three.

Would you explain to me how an eternal God who has existed before time & eternity created Himself ? And if God created Himself as Jesus ( as you purport ), what do you do with John 1:1 and Col 1:16 where is specifically says that Jesus created everything there is. How do you explain your "Oneness Doctrine" when it's so clear that it just can not be ?

Please, no conjecture here....only facts backed up with scripture.

Thanks,

Bob

[whatsitmean]

Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

(If the person they were looking for was sitting on the throne, He would have been pretty easy to find don't you think? Why the big search?)

Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

What's that all about Caspar?

[BigD]

If God was triune why wouldnt He tell us plainly like the way He told us how He made the creation? Why did He leave it for us to figure it out? The bible is so clear about describing His attributes ..God is not a man ..God cannot be tempted ..God doesnt Change ..God is love ..God is not the author of confusion ..God is a spirit ..it could have easily said God is triune if that attribute was so important for us to follow ..

John 17:3