Guest Butero Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 You guys should at least explain your points. You're just as good as not replying at all without doing so... Please tell me how the scriptures do not relate to what was posted please. Enlighten us. If you feel a message is misguiding someone, would you simply sit by and do nothing about it??? If Blien and Gauntlet are going to make comments like that, I agree with you that they should give some sort of explaination for them. Here are my thoughts on the passage in question. Revelation 3:14-18 14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou are neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white rainment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. In reality, God tells us why he considers the Laodicean church lukewarm in verse 17. The people have stopped trusting in God, and are putting their trust in self. They are forgetting where their provision comes from. They are forgetting that "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights..." James 1:17. They think they have arrived spiritually, and have need of nothing from God. In reality, God sees them as wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked. In verse 18, God advises them on what to do. Here is how I interpret verse 18. 1. Buy gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich. To me this means learn to be a giving person. When we learn to be charitable, we are laying up treasures for ourselves in heaven. 2. Buy white rainment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear. How does someone with filthy garments trade them in for clean ones? Through the blood of Jesus. When we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us, and cleanse us from all unrighteounsess. 3. Anoint thine eyes with eyesalve that thou mayest see. How do we do that? Through God's Word. The Bible tells us that God's Word is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our pathway. You mentioned how people like to compare themselves to one another. That is not wise. What we need to do is look at ourselves in the mirror of God's Word to see clearly. When we do that, we see how needy we really are, and what a helpless state we are in without God's grace. Thanks for your post. I don't disagree with it, but if someone asks you, "what does God think about people that are lukewarm?", why wouldn't this passage be something we can point to? Yes, Jesus is upset with the Church, but couldn't this apply to many people and not just who He is speaking with here? Aren't there plenty of people today that fit the description of the people in the Laodiceans? Wouldn't this mean they are lukewarm as well? There are certainly lessons to be learned from this church. If we see some of ourselves in the description, then we need to follow the same advise Jesus gave to the Laodiceans. I didn't mean to imply it was only for that one church and nobody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blien Posted May 24, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 346 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,050 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1982 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I guess the important question to ask is...Is this "church" that Jesus is speaking of, a person, actual church, an age, or all the above? If it is a individual person, is this person saved to begin with? If they are saved, why would they be wretched, poor, blind, miserable, and naked? When we are truly saved, God SEALS us (2 Corinth 1:22, Ephesians 1:13 and 4:30, 2 Tim. 2:19) and therefore we already would have robes of white...these robes are made white from the blood of Christ. So who are these people without robes? Are these those that just use Jesus' name for personal gain? maybe that's why they claim to be rich and in need of nothing....They don't search for truth, knowledge, or wisdom. They may not search to do what's best for the "church". Maybe these, Laodiceans are those that Christ speaks of that said "Lord, Lord, have we not prophecied in your name and cast out demons?" and Christ replies..."depart, For I do not know you". Maybe they are lukewarm because they don't deny the name, yet deny the power of the gift that was given at the cross. You know what.. that's a great point.. I was just thinking to myself as I was reading your reply. Is it possible some people can be truly deceived about their relationship with God? Is it possible that they truly believe they are saved, when they are not? Because they have not totally opened their heart up to him but yet deceived themselves into thinking so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blien Posted May 24, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 346 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,050 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1982 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I wonder does anyone know exactly what was meant when our Lord called them lukewarm. Remember He compared them to not hot, or cold. He used it as a reference to the two streams that went through that city. I'll try to find the sermon for you which has all the historical references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 But why do you need reference points in the first place? Throughout the Bible there are numerous examples by the Apostle Paul and others who let the Holy Spirit speak through them. Do you not remember this verse? Mark 13:11 11Now when they take you [to court] and put you under arrest, do not be anxious beforehand about what you are to say nor [even ] meditate about it; but say whatever is given you in that hour and at the moment, for it is not you who will be speaking, but the Holy Spirit. So we dont need to prepare anything. If God wants us to speak to person, he will provide the words and the thoughts, and inspiration.. as we are the fragile temple of the Holy Spirit, we need not worry about these things. God is with us. Do you know what that verse is referring too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I wonder does anyone know exactly what was meant when our Lord called them lukewarm. Remember He compared them to not hot, or cold. The Bible doesn't leave anyone guessing what God means. He tells us why he called them lukewarm in verse 17. The only thing that takes some level of interpretation is how you go about going from lukewarm to on fire for God. He tells us the answer in verse 18, but it requires figuring out what he means. I could only give you my interpretation in that regard, which everyone is free to accept or reject as being correct. Again, the first part of verse 17 says: Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing... It is like the rich man who was going to tear town his barns and build bigger barns because he was so financially prosperous. You can get to the place where you quit trusting in God, and instead trust in self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I wonder does anyone know exactly what was meant when our Lord called them lukewarm. Remember He compared them to not hot, or cold. My interpretation of that verse is this. Hot means an individual is walking in obedience to the Word to the best of his ability. He is a Spirit filled person. Cold is someone who doesn't care for God and His ways. Lukewarm is someone who basically gives lip service. He claims to be a christian but his heart is just not in it. He seeks praise and glory from those around him, more than he does from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murse32 Posted May 24, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 171 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/25/1977 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I wonder does anyone know exactly what was meant when our Lord called them lukewarm. Remember He compared them to not hot, or cold. My interpretation of that verse is this. Hot means an individual is walking in obedience to the Word to the best of his ability. He is a Spirit filled person. Cold is someone who doesn't care for God and His ways. Lukewarm is someone who basically gives lip service. He claims to be a christian but his heart is just not in it. He seeks praise and glory from those around him, more than he does from God. And I would have to agree. Maybe the whole point of Him wishing those were either hot or cold is because when the outside world looks in and see's a 'lukewarm" person, it makes others feel as if there's no purpose to Christianity. Seeing someone who claims to be christian yet lives a worldly lifestyle, gives a bad name to us. Could even cause others to stumble...yet, when someone is cold, nobody looks in our direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I wonder does anyone know exactly what was meant when our Lord called them lukewarm. Remember He compared them to not hot, or cold. He used it as a reference to the two streams that went through that city. I'll try to find the sermon for you which has all the historical references. I'm sorry Blien, but that is not what He's talking about... It's about indifference. We all know people who are "on fire" and we all know people that are bitterly opposed to the Lord (which is where I was)....and then we all know people who go through the motions of religion. Yeshua is saying that he'd rather you be AGAINST him (cold) than lukewarm. At least you have a pulse! So many have been inoculated with a false image of Jesus that they simply can't see him any other way than what is comfortable for them. Those who are "cold" (like I was) know exactly who He is and just refuse to submit. They can be reached....and when they are, they become the most zealous of believers because they have always been passionate about what they believe even when they were wrong. The lukewarm are people who are indifferent. They don't really care about anything and they certainly wouldn't be activist about their faith. They are the salt without savor that is useful for nothing mentioned in Mark 9:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murse32 Posted May 24, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 171 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/25/1977 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I wonder does anyone know exactly what was meant when our Lord called them lukewarm. Remember He compared them to not hot, or cold. He used it as a reference to the two streams that went through that city. I'll try to find the sermon for you which has all the historical references. I'm sorry Blien, but that is not what He's talking about... It's about indifference. We all know people who are "on fire" and we all know people that are bitterly opposed to the Lord (which is where I was)....and then we all know people who go through the motions of religion. Yeshua is saying that he'd rather you be AGAINST him (cold) than lukewarm. At least you have a pulse! So many have been inoculated with a false image of Jesus that they simply can't see him any other way than what is comfortable for them. Those who are "cold" (like I was) know exactly who He is and just refuse to submit. They can be reached....and when they are, they become the most zealous of believers because they have always been passionate about what they believe even when they were wrong. The lukewarm are people who are indifferent. They don't really care about anything and they certainly wouldn't be activist about their faith. They are the salt without savor that is useful for nothing mentioned in Mark 9:50 Very interesting stand-point as well. Lot's of good answers on this post tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Christ was comparing the Laodecian Christians to thier water supply. What is your interpretation of the hot, warm and cold. What does each of them mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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