Murse32

Well said!!

knowing what these things said to the people who did them is the only way of knowing what they mean. Making symbolism apart from that will always be flawed speculation. It makes no difference in your ultimate salvation but is rather a discipleship issue. The burnt offering represents a life consumed by God. There are certainly deeper lessons which could be learned and symbolic things which we can speculate about, but that's what it represented to the people offering them. For a really in-depth study there is one book I highly recommend and it's Louis Goldberg's commentary on Leviticus. I believe when we compare the OT to the NT it is possible to make MANY flawed speculations. The important part is to notice that they definetly correlate with one another giving greater meaning. I will definetly check out that commentary...sounds like it would be very interesting. Thank you.

Well, I'm no expert when it comes to the Levitical laws, but a couple things I do know from reading is that there were many kinds of offerings. Some offerings were to be offered to the Lord and eaten. If I am correct though, burnt offerings were to be put into the flames and turned into ashes...to the point where there was NO meat left. Now, the sin offering was to be cooked and eaten by the priests. You refer to Jeremiah, Im not sure which verse you were referring to, but IF you are speaking of Jeremiah 7, where it says to combine the burnt offering and the sacrifice, I believe that was Gods way of saying that they didn't matter each way. The Jews were no longer doing the will of God therefore He proclaims their offerings where to NO avail. If you would like to know more about the law of offerings, you can refer to Leviticus 6. This gives a few different kinds of offerings...burnt, sin, and grain. I believe there is a peace offering as well. I believe whats really important to notice, is while you read so many of these laws, keep in the back of your mind how Jesus fulfilled these and how they show symbolizm is His and the apostles ministry. For example, the sin offering was to be eaten by the priests...at the last supper, Jesus proclaimed, this is my body...eat.

You are very welcome. If the Holy Spirit convicts you, than it is with you. You may be able to grieve it, but not have it leave you. John 14:16 - "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever." This is why so often we may stray and go down our own path, but He only allows us to go so far before He yanks us back. Oh boy!! These words sound ever so familiar...sounds like many years of my life. The only difference, Is I've never seen it as a tug-of-war between us. I've always visualized God and I holding the rope together, or God carrying it for me...BUT, as soon as I give that rope a yank, He lets go...He takes a seat and waits for me. After trying to carry it for so long and realizing how heavy it really is, I always come back and say..."It's too heavy, would you mind carrying this thing for me?"..He just smiles and says..."I thought you'd never ask". It is too easy to fall into the imaginations of our own mind. We sin, therefore we feel God has left...He is always there, just as I have said before...we have just built a curtain that needs tearing down. In the old temple, there was a curtain that seperated the priests from the Mercy seat of God...When Jesus died, this curtain was torn...the sin was gone and we were reconciled with our Father. Though that curtain is still gone to this day, it is possible for us to put up a temporary curtain with our sins...but it is so easily torn down when we come back to Him. The same goes in our lives...we may put that curtain up...but He is still there waiting. Keep in mind, that temple now, is YOU. He still dwells within the temple...we just seperate ourselves from Him. Again, you are very welcome. Yes you are correct on both accounts. We can be our own worst enemy but if you give up things to His will...It always works out for the best. Romans 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose". It is a difficult task at times though...we feel like Peter climbing out of the boat and onto the water...we believe, but when we realize what we're doing, we panic and go into the water. Some are so quick to give God all things, but just as quick to snatch them back when they aren't going according to OUR plan...You are not alone here...but there are many people who love you and will stick by you through your walk...I am one. God bless you as well my sister. My prayers are with you. With love in Christ.

Awww sister, You are going through what many have gone through before. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you aren't saved because you have doubts. I, myself, used to have doubts all the time. It was basically because I felt the same way you do now. I felt that I wasn't worthy, I couldn't offer anything, or that I kept sinning therefore I couldn't be saved...Than, I began to study my bible and realized something beautiful....That is exactly why Jesus died for us...Because NO ONE is good enough, NO ONE can offer God anything, and we are sinners therefore, we need HIM. It's upon this epiphany that we begin to realize just how much God does love us and wishes to be with us. If you believe in Christ and have accepted Him...you are saved. If you spend more time worrying about your salvation, that is just the works of the enemy doing his best to steal your joy. He knows that he lost the battle, but now he just does what he can to make you stumble. You asked how one can truly know if they are saved? The Holy Spirit. Do you ever feel conviction? Do you ever proclaim Jesus is Lord? Do you ever feel guided by the Spirit? If you answered yes to any of these...than you have the Holy Spirit within you...The Holy Spirit is your SEAL and proof that you are HIS. The importance of knowing that you are saved, is the joy and freedom that comes with knowing. Once you have joy and freedom, you allow yourself to be lead by the Spirit instead of trying so hard to follow Gods rules and constantly fail. Just living by the letter allows for failure. To be lead, allows for growth and happiness. Some people get this right away, some, it's takes many years. You'll get it my sister, just have patience and keep your eyes on Him. He loves you and so do I. With love in Christ. Dave

He used it as a reference to the two streams that went through that city. I'll try to find the sermon for you which has all the historical references. I'm sorry Blien, but that is not what He's talking about... It's about indifference. We all know people who are "on fire" and we all know people that are bitterly opposed to the Lord (which is where I was)....and then we all know people who go through the motions of religion. Yeshua is saying that he'd rather you be AGAINST him (cold) than lukewarm. At least you have a pulse! So many have been inoculated with a false image of Jesus that they simply can't see him any other way than what is comfortable for them. Those who are "cold" (like I was) know exactly who He is and just refuse to submit. They can be reached....and when they are, they become the most zealous of believers because they have always been passionate about what they believe even when they were wrong. The lukewarm are people who are indifferent. They don't really care about anything and they certainly wouldn't be activist about their faith. They are the salt without savor that is useful for nothing mentioned in Mark 9:50 Very interesting stand-point as well. Lot's of good answers on this post tonight.

My interpretation of that verse is this. Hot means an individual is walking in obedience to the Word to the best of his ability. He is a Spirit filled person. Cold is someone who doesn't care for God and His ways. Lukewarm is someone who basically gives lip service. He claims to be a christian but his heart is just not in it. He seeks praise and glory from those around him, more than he does from God. And I would have to agree. Maybe the whole point of Him wishing those were either hot or cold is because when the outside world looks in and see's a 'lukewarm" person, it makes others feel as if there's no purpose to Christianity. Seeing someone who claims to be christian yet lives a worldly lifestyle, gives a bad name to us. Could even cause others to stumble...yet, when someone is cold, nobody looks in our direction.

If Blien and Gauntlet are going to make comments like that, I agree with you that they should give some sort of explaination for them. Here are my thoughts on the passage in question. Revelation 3:14-18 14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou are neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white rainment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. In reality, God tells us why he considers the Laodicean church lukewarm in verse 17. The people have stopped trusting in God, and are putting their trust in self. They are forgetting where their provision comes from. They are forgetting that "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights..." James 1:17. They think they have arrived spiritually, and have need of nothing from God. In reality, God sees them as wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked. In verse 18, God advises them on what to do. Here is how I interpret verse 18. 1. Buy gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich. To me this means learn to be a giving person. When we learn to be charitable, we are laying up treasures for ourselves in heaven. 2. Buy white rainment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear. How does someone with filthy garments trade them in for clean ones? Through the blood of Jesus. When we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us, and cleanse us from all unrighteounsess. 3. Anoint thine eyes with eyesalve that thou mayest see. How do we do that? Through God's Word. The Bible tells us that God's Word is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our pathway. You mentioned how people like to compare themselves to one another. That is not wise. What we need to do is look at ourselves in the mirror of God's Word to see clearly. When we do that, we see how needy we really are, and what a helpless state we are in without God's grace. Thanks for your post. I don't disagree with it, but if someone asks you, "what does God think about people that are lukewarm?", why wouldn't this passage be something we can point to? Yes, Jesus is upset with the Church, but couldn't this apply to many people and not just who He is speaking with here? Aren't there plenty of people today that fit the description of the people in the Laodiceans? Wouldn't this mean they are lukewarm as well? I guess the important question to ask is...Is this "church" that Jesus is speaking of, a person, actual church, an age, or all the above? If it is a individual person, is this person saved to begin with? If they are saved, why would they be wretched, poor, blind, miserable, and naked? When we are truly saved, God SEALS us (2 Corinth 1:22, Ephesians 1:13 and 4:30, 2 Tim. 2:19) and therefore we already would have robes of white...these robes are made white from the blood of Christ. So who are these people without robes? Are these those that just use Jesus' name for personal gain? maybe that's why they claim to be rich and in need of nothing....They don't search for truth, knowledge, or wisdom. They may not search to do what's best for the "church". Maybe these, Laodiceans are those that Christ speaks of that said "Lord, Lord, have we not prophecied in your name and cast out demons?" and Christ replies..."depart, For I do not know you". Maybe they are lukewarm because they don't deny the name, yet deny the power of the gift that was given at the cross.

Dear StartingToday, There are many good points that people have pointed out. I in know way condone divorce, but I do understand what you are going through...as I'm sure many of us do. I have been there myself, and believe me, if there is ANY way in which you can avoid it...do so. I am also one that tries to avoid at all costs though, being legalistic. Yes, it is true that if you divorce you have sinned, we all do though. It is true that if you put away someone you cause them to commit adultery...we know what the bible says...But at what point do we say, we stay married, but sin constantly in our hearts. 1 Corinthians 7:5 tells us not to deprive one another, being that if we do, we will easily be tempted because of our lack of self-control. This does in fact seem like a difficult task. I guess what I'm basically trying to say, is that staying married just because the bible "Says so" yet you feel divorced in your heart...has no point. If possible, pray and pray about the situation if you have strength...if you don't, pray for strength. See where that leads you. I did not jump on here to give you marriage advice though. My concern was that you felt that you would somehow be "left behind" if the rapture happened today. Well, those that will be taken in a rapture, are those that are saved. Just because you are going through a rough time in your life and have even sinned, does not make you ANY LESS saved than anyone else if you truly were saved to begin with. We all have sinned, shoot, we probably sin on a daily basis and don't even know it half the time. If this were the case, we would be saved one minute, lost the next, saved once more...Saved is saved. Jesus didn't die on a cross in order for those that truly believe in Him to play a balancing game...If this were possible, His sacrifice would be insufficient...It is not. There are many Christians that love and believe in Christ with all their heart and souls, yet still struggle with wordly desires. It's called being human. If we were all made completely perfect upon salvation, that means we would have no need for growth...We all need to grow. Christs atonement was sufficient enough to cover ALL sins...not just some. Now, you can most definetly put a fierce wedge between you and God in your relationship...But Christ said it best Himself... John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father

I'm interested...send my way if you don't mind...I always enjoy an interesting point of view.

I am neither Pentecostal nor charismatic...Wow, can you guys believe that?!!? LOL, but I do agree with you fully on this comment Stacey. I can only speculate what Pentecostals believe by what I have seen or was told by members. I know some are far out there. Being from the south, you have what some called "Themselves" oneness pentecostals...I haven't seen to many oneness churches up here, but I always heard rumors about some playing with snakes. They did this because Jesus claimed that you could handle serpents and not die. What I do know for a fact, is that THIS sect of pentecostalism is quite rare. Most on here are very level headed and wouldn't do such things. I have also met some that consider themselves "oneness" but do not partake in such activities. I spoke with one gentleman (pentecostal) who proceeded to tell me all about the works of one "William Branham"...this was interesting to say the least...but I would never, EVER paint pentecostals as being with the likes of this guy. As I have said, being from Arkansas, I saw alot of the "Can't wear pants (women)" can't cut hair, can't own a TV (Im serious), MUST speak in tongues...but than I come here and speak with you fine "pentecostals" and realize that it's all based on each individual church and each individual person. I guess in general, we can same the same about all denoms. I know being a baptist myself, many have this false impression that once you walk into a baptist church a finger will be pointed at you proclaiming hell awaits...ROTFL...simply not true.

Hey Blien, You stated that some times were hard. Does this mean your parents were hard? If this is the case, keep in mind that parents are human...most often they do things in a way, the only way they may know how, in order to PREPARE you for the time you are about to endeavour. I know as a parent that when my daughter moves out and gets her own place, I will worry...profusely!!! But when I see that she is able to make it on her own, I will know that I have done somewhat of a good job. Don't be so worrysome on your parents reaction. They are well aware you won't be living with them forever...nor do I believe they want you too...LOL.

Not saying you are wrong or right...I've just always understood it differently...and I could be wrong. The bible only gives us a faint glimpse into the afterlife. But I always understood it as the righteous went to Abrhams Bosom whereas the wicked went to Hades. In Luke 16, we see Lazarus comforted in the place known as "Abrahams Bosom" where the rich man was tormented in the flames of Hades. Many believe that everyone goes or went to the same place once we died because in the end of Revelation we see the white throne judgement. I believe all are judged immediately when they perish, just not giving reasons. At the white throne judgement the books will be opened and everyone's life will be known and the reasons for their eternal resting place be made well aware. As I have said, this is just my opinion. The words speaking of the rich man, state he "looked up" to see Abraham. Maybe this shows us that they were able to see and speak to each other....maybe it was told that way to make the point of the parable more understandable...I have no idea.

Doesn't rattle my faith either. It just makes me want to puke. Of course, I couldn't stomach 97% of the books I was forced to read in my English classes as well. LOL, yeah, If you've never been to college...don't go!!! LOL. I had to take sociology and learn under a evolutionist who combined the two as gospel. It's funny though, some would feel as you do, and want to puke...me, I just laughed...their stance is so weak and unjustified, that it just strengthened my faith.

Because there is no mention of Jesus nor the disciples having to prove the existence of God to anyone in Israel. No, He did point out things that were wrong. i.e. The sermon on the mount - "You have heard it said..." Thanks. Note, I am expressing my feelings and concerns and that I am not understanding the other side. I'm trying not to point fingers. I just don't understand. The whole book just breaks my heart. You missed my point. I would never say Jesus never told someone something was wrong. What I was saying, is that He didn't spend His ministry focusing on the wrongs as much as He did spreading the truth. Jesus' purpose was to shed light on a dark world...He didn't come to explain the "darkness" or show the wrongs with darkness as much as allow the light to be shared which would eradict the darkness...If that makes sense...If not, I apologize. Oh Neb, I know you are not pointing fingers...nor am I. I know what kind of person you are and have no ill will toward you. Heck, I'm not even trying to get you to enjoy Brown's books. If you don't like them, that's fine. We would both be guilty of not understanding the other side. It's cause we are not perfect. We have our views and our standpoints and we support them. Not that either one of us is right or wrong, just that we are all in different places in our walk. That never makes one person higher or lower...I always like to visualize it being lateral. one may be more to the left than the right. Wth myself, and I speak only of myself, I can read these books and see them for what they are. In the same way I can study other religious works for the purpose of apologetics and see them for what they are. Would I ever suggest to someone new in the faith to pick up the koran and start picking it apart? Never. But I have in order to be a better witness and supporter to the bible. I guess this is the same reason I can read Browns books and not be offended...I have read much worse. Maybe it is me, maybe I am a victim of the numbness that encompasses the christian family. I hope this isn't true, but it is possible. Or, maybe I am just strong enough to not let certain issues sway my beliefs and rattle my faith. Who knows. With love in Christ

Than you know what? I can respect your decision. It's apparent that you can do all those things in faith and it not cause a stumbling block for you. Though Dan Browns work may, some may look at them the same as they do the news. So often the news glorifies a very unchristian lifestyle and people can't tolerate it...doesn't make it wrong or right...just not for them. I have watched the news, we see so many reporters nowadays taking the liberal side. An ecumenical stand-point if you will...This is blasphemy. I don't hide from it, just shake my head in pity is all. Also, because of the news that is brought forth, this cozy feeling of love all and their ways has deluded peoples thinking in ways that we SHOULD except others beliefs and tolerate them...what is this doing to babies in the faith? The news is "real" (I use that term loosely), where Dan Browns writings are not. Just because someone is a "baby in the faith" does not make them ignorant...I would hope if they had questions about Jesus' life...they would turn to the bible. As far as your last point, I have to agree. I don't appreciate blasphemy as well. My thought process though, and it very well may be flawed...I am human and learning...is that blasphemy often comes with intent. Maybe not always, but from my experience it was made to be just that...a jab at Christ. In Dan Browns works, I don't see him taking a jab. Now, I will admit, I don't know his lifestyle nor do I know his stance on christianity...I've never been so enthrawled with him that I felt it necessary to dig deeper. I just read his books, found his theology flawed, but realized what kind of book I was reading. His works are hailed as "page turners"...If they were proclaiming to be insight to Jesus' life...I would be on your side, fighting with you...but it's not. I look at Dan Brown the same way I look at Stephen King...a writer with an over-active imagination.

How are you able to access the Internet from the year 1880, where you must live? Ha Ha. I work for CERN...we have invented time travel...So, I'll usually jump back and forth in time with my morning coffee so that I can post with you fine folks. Actually, what I just typed is fiction...though I do have coffee in the morning, so, Part of it is true. Nice to see you just pulled a little piece of my quote without the entire piece to grasp the point I was trying to make...thanks for that, appreciate it. LOL. Guess I'm going to be amish now.

Do I have a line? absolutely!! We all do, they just never seem to be the same lines. What bothers some, does not bother me...and what bothers me, does not bother some. I for one, can not stand TV...in general, unless we are speaking of the Food Network. But how many Christians watch TV? Should I get on here stating that I don't understand why Christians own such a device? No, I would never. I don't see anything wrong with television...It's just my opinion that most things are garbage and therefore it's not even worth turning on most of the time. Let me give you an example. I know many christians who love the Lord with all their hearts...yet they watch "greys anatomy". Now, this is only my opinion, but what I have seen, glorifies homosexuality and promiscuity. It does not take away from Jesus' deity nor does it bring Him up...it does glorify something that He died on the cross for to free us from though. Would you consider this as a defaming of Christ since it slaps Him in the face for what He has done for us? Many don't...that is for them to work out in their own lives. Than we don't read them. But if we are still talking about Dan Brown, I personally haven't seen any attacks. I just see someone who doesn't know the biblical truth...like many others. The issue isn't about what I have a problem with. It's what should we be attacking as a christian group? Is fiction really a major concern to us? Some secularist uses Jesus' as a base on a very far fetched book...This is just one piece that doesn't worry me. If someone is really intrigued by this book and wants to know more and picks up a bible...they will see how riduculous his writings are from a biblical stand point. Once again, this is strictly make believe. Now, as far as movies go, If you want to say something along the lines of "The Last Temptation of Christ" being horrific, I would agree. This movie made claims to using the bible to show christ's life. This movie is sick in my opinion and heretical. The Davinci Code on the other hand, didn't use biblical basis...it was just a story line. A far fetched story line at that. You are correct, they were Jews...but lost none the less. You say they believed in God, but how do you know? Did Judas really believe? Was he a godly man? Jesus still used him despite the answer. Was Matthew a godly man? How about Zacchaeus, we know he was a jew as well, but where does it say he believed in God? My point is we can't assume. We only know what we are told. Furthermore, We see Jesus didn't make right of issues by walking around telling them what was wrong as much as telling them what was right. Neb, I love ya to death...you are a wonderful person. But in this day and age, we are surrounded by so many wrongs...I believe we should just live our lives in which is right....and let the world see just how great it is to be Christian. Not so focused on obliterating the wrongs and giving them more fuel...The wrong doings are only there because there is an absence...once that absence is filled, the nastyness will weed itself out. With love in Christ

Yes, but in all honesty Neb, how far can we go with this? How long can this same logic go on until we all are nothing more than ostriches with our head in the sand? Let me give you an example. How many Christians watch the news? The news has become a liberal frenzy...yet we still partake in watching it. How about a fictional movies such as "Lord of the Rings"...These books/movies say nothing about denying Christ, but if we really want to grab at straws, we can say it glorifies witchcraft and whatever else...but we still know it's fiction. I could write books and books on here on TV shows and movies and books that don't necessarily take away Jesus' deity, but they do throw back in the face of God the things He is against...we should be strong in our faith and know what's right and what's wrong. I'm not saying that entitles us to watch and read whatever, cause some things are just disgusting...but when you have a book that is just made for fun and not a bible study, it can be enjoyed by christians. Neb, I'm not asking you to think like I do, nor am I stating you should like the things I like. And, you do make very good points. All I am trying to say, is that somethings are just not worth getting worked up over. Do you realize Christians spend more time attacking books of fiction like "The Davinci Code", "Harry Potter", "Lord of the Rings" even "pokemon" and brush off the fact that there are cults like the mormons who use OUR bible and demote Christ to nothing more than a teacher...yet we stand quiet for the most part. Dan Brown, is the least of my worries when I know that most people just reading him for entertainment and not searching for the truth. About my mother and father. It would depend on the type of book. If an author came to my parents house and said "may I write about your life" and it was full of lies....yes, I would get angry. But, If that same author came to them and said "Im writing a book about fairies and elves and would like to use you for a base"...than no, I would not get angry in the least bit. It's a fiction book. Non . . . but enough people who do not know Jesus accept it as truth. Do you know how to show them Jesus for who He is and erase these lies about Him? My dear Neb, for two thousand years people have been writing lies about our lord and savior. I have read writings that proclaimed that Mithra came before Jesus and Jesus was just another story based off a pagan god. I have heard people state that Jesus was a real person, but just a teacher, I have heard Jesus never existed. I've heard it all. Those people will have to find the truth on their own. We as christians do what we can....we can not change hearts, nor should we be the ones that burn books and protest unholy events. We should live in love and shine as a beacon in the dark. During Jesus' time horrible writings were being circulated. Pagan rituals were going on...Jesus never rallied "the troops" and picketed their gathering places...instead, He sat with them, ate with them and tried to explain the truth. When they didn't want to hear it...He went on His way to another.

I think your best bet of discussion with your GF's aunt is to point out the purpose of marriage. We can only speculate on what humanity would be like without the fall of Adam and Eve. But we do know that once we are made perfect in the end, we will be as the angels are...neither married nor given in marriage. This tells me that we were never truly intended to be a married bunch. We were intended to be fruitful and multiply bringing forth life for the kingdom of Heaven, but once the fall occured, our hearts became evil. We started having needs and lustful thoughts as we still do today. To curb those needs, we are now instructed to take one husband or wife. Jesus on the other hand, did not have these needs...He was complete as God. His life was dedicated to God...He even expected His apostles to have the same mindset in that He asked them to leave their families behind. Jesus had no need for a wife because He didn't have a need to fulfill His sexual desires....because He had none. His desire was to do the will of the Father.

You mean you have seen Brown in interviews state that his books are based on fact? No i meant i agree that i don't understand how Christians could regard the DaVinci Code as good entertainment. Can i just ask if you'll think that Jesus would have enjoyed reading the book/watching the movie? With all due respect, and not wishing to bash...I don't understand your thinking. Do you really think Jesus would enjoy watching the news? pass time on the internet? get married? Yet, these are things we christians do on a normal basis. This WWJD mentallity is limited to a "love" factor. The love factor encompasses our beliefs and our walk in life. It does not base what we should watch or what we should deem entertaining. Yes, I agree, there are some shows and books that bother me...so I choose not to read them or watch them...period. But things like the "Davinci Code", I as a christian, can see what it is...MAKE BELIEVE. I have not met one person yet who believed in Christ to accept the Davinci Code as a biblical truth. As far as the OP goes though, it was based on some person bashing Dan Brown...I'm not standing up for Brown saying he should be defended or that I am some hardcore Dan Brown fan, but to say his books are apalling because he doesn't do enough research is just wrong. He did pleanty of research that he didn't even have too!! It's a fiction book, it doesn't require it...yet he through in SOME truths to make it more entertaining. It's like the book "The Shack". Great book!!!! Yet we see God as a heavy black woman, a lumberjack looking fella, and an asian woman. It's fiction, but great points are made...it would be like us judging this book because it goes against scripture in the fact that God doesn't have form in many aspects...it was made for entertainment and for a point to be made. If anyone hasn't read this book...I HIGHLY suggest it. First book that ever brought tears to my eyes.

Wine or grapejuice and why? Notice the word 'new"? Do you think this means grape juic can be bad? Wine or grapejuice? Notice the word new? Wine or grapejuice? No one has commented on this although I've tried to make the point many times. Why is there no single outright admonishment against taking a little wine? Please... God had 230 chances to do this and didn't do it. Why do you think that is? ArtsyLady, I'm not sure where you stand on this topic and honestly, I'm not going back and reading 16 pages of people throwing out their opinions on if they think people should drink or not. But I will answer your question though using the bible. Juice or Wine? We will start with the word juice. The Hebrew word is 'Aciyc'. It basically means a juice from fruit, wine or new wine. It is used 5 times in the bible: Song of Songs 8:2, Is 49:26, Joel 1:5, Joel 3:18, and Amos 9:13. It's concordanance ref. number is (6071). Now the other word for wine, is 'Yayin'. The root word comes from the meaning to effervesce. This would have to do with the fermentation of the wine. This is the word used every other time in the old test. (140 times). Concord. ref number is (3196). I hope this answered your question and I wasn't just diving in ignorantly due to not reading the past posts. If I did, I apologize.

Lots of good replies, but from what I have seen, many are just throwing out "opinions". My opinion does not matter, whether I am against drinking or believe that drinking in moderation is acceptable are not the case. Scripture is clear that drinking in small amounts is acceptable. Even Jesus himself drank and commented that the pharisees would refer to Him as a drunkard (Matthew 11:19). Now, for the OP, many are correct, drinking in the USA is prohibited for those under the age of 21. But what happens if these kids go to Canada where the age is 19? or to Mexico where the age is....if you can reach the bar? or to France where even the kids drink a little wine with dinner and is acceptable in most cultures. We have to think outside of just our happy little world. Now, if you are in the states, I highly suggest you follow the law of the land. Drinking for minors is simply not wise. Once you get to the age where you can legally purchase alcohol...I would suggest that if there is no problems with it, to drink in moderation, in faith, and with wisdom. We go back to the topic of the last supper. Jesus would not drink on this night. He even stated that He would not drink of the fruit of this vine until He drank it with us in Heaven. This is best explained in the fact that God commanded the Levite priests to abstain from alcohol while they were going into the temple to make offerings. Jesus, being our last Levite priest made the last sacrifice for us...He did this with a sober mind....He did not abstain because wine is a sin, but in order to fulfill all righteousness.