~candice~ Posted August 20, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2009 I too believe my views are totally scriptural and no one has been able to refute that. But discussing them just causes arguments. This is one subject I have simply chosen to remain silent on. I hope my posts have lent support to your scriptural pacifist stand. Naz, if someone claimed that Jesus resurrection was only metaphorical, but refused to defend their stand with scripture, what would your reaction be? Andy, the bottom line is I have engaged in this argument one too many times. But when I have I have supported everything with Scripture. I just don't care to go through it all again. My experience has been that most people love their traditions more than the word of God. So why did you respond in this thread in the first place? Frustration more than anything else. I am human you know. Don't assume you know my position on this as I have not said. I will say this much. I consider homosexuality to be a psychosexual disorder. Homosexuals are victims of the same corrupting influence of satanic forces which infects the entire universe. As such they deserve compassion not condemnation. The question the Lutherans are considering is moot. The whole clergy-laity distinction is unscriptural to begin with. I sometimes respond in frustration too , sin taints us all. And I absolutely agree on showing compassion (I have heaps to say about this but won't) but I think that sometimes we (generic "we") can be guilty of extending compassion to the point of acceptance, and this is wrong. This is what spurs me on about this topic... 2 Cor 10 4The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. My apologies if I came across too strong, but I believe that this subject sets itself up against the knowledge of Christ (since it is in opposition to what is said in His Word). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted August 20, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2009 Ooops, that was NIV (I'm not a fan of NIV usually). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixJLD Posted August 21, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2009 Gays have been present in the churches for many years just like in our society.We have accepted them for what they are and the churches are doing the same. Blessings I don't quite understand your point. What does it mean for the church to "accept them as they are"? It means the Great Apostasy is upon us I agree. Sin has become the norm in today's churches, claiming that we are not to judge. Acceptance in love is what is being preached. Even though we are to love all, we are to stand against sin at all cost. The problem is, that when we focus on just one sin, like homosexual, we forget about the others. Sin is sin and that will never change by how one may see one sin worst then another. Standing against sin is important, but so is acceptance in love. Some churches go too far in one direction, and some in the other. Homosexual Christians - sexually active or not - are too often ostracized and made to feel like no other Christian will accept them, and that God will not accept them either. As Christians we do need to accept them for who they are and love them just the same. We are all sinners, we know that. God calls us to love each other anyway. Not to the point of overlooking sin, but to the point of supporting each other and loving each other despite the sins each of us struggle with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted August 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2009 Gays have been present in the churches for many years just like in our society.We have accepted them for what they are and the churches are doing the same. Blessings I don't quite understand your point. What does it mean for the church to "accept them as they are"? It means the Great Apostasy is upon us I agree. Sin has become the norm in today's churches, claiming that we are not to judge. Acceptance in love is what is being preached. Even though we are to love all, we are to stand against sin at all cost. The problem is, that when we focus on just one sin, like homosexual, we forget about the others. Sin is sin and that will never change by how one may see one sin worst then another. Standing against sin is important, but so is acceptance in love. Some churches go too far in one direction, and some in the other. Homosexual Christians - sexually active or not - are too often ostracized and made to feel like no other Christian will accept them, and that God will not accept them either. As Christians we do need to accept them for who they are and love them just the same. We are all sinners, we know that. God calls us to love each other anyway. Not to the point of overlooking sin, but to the point of supporting each other and loving each other despite the sins each of us struggle with. The correct way to love a sexually active homosexual christian is to point them to what the Word says about their sin, that it nailed Christ to the cross and that they have no licence whatsoever to carry on in that lifestyle now that they know Christ. We are told not to accept their behavior. The sexually active homosexual who doesn't struggle against their sin is following their own desires and not Christ, and we should pray for their salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixJLD Posted August 21, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2009 Standing against sin is important, but so is acceptance in love. Some churches go too far in one direction, and some in the other. Homosexual Christians - sexually active or not - are too often ostracized and made to feel like no other Christian will accept them, and that God will not accept them either. As Christians we do need to accept them for who they are and love them just the same. We are all sinners, we know that. God calls us to love each other anyway. Not to the point of overlooking sin, but to the point of supporting each other and loving each other despite the sins each of us struggle with. The correct way to love a sexually active homosexual christian is to point them to what the Word says about their sin, that it nailed Christ to the cross and that they have no licence whatsoever to carry on in that lifestyle now that they know Christ. We are told not to accept their behavior. The sexually active homosexual who doesn't struggle against their sin is following their own desires and not Christ, and we should pray for their salvation. Agreed. But I haven't come across a single homosexual who claims Christ, who doesn't struggle against their sin. Whether they give in to it or not, it's a constant battle. More than anything, they need the support of other Christians to keep them from giving up and slipping back into a sinful lifestyle. Of course, if you ask nazorai he can give you some well thought-out Biblical arguments that homosexuality is not a sin at all. I don't agree, but the best explanation I could give was that his conclusions didn't feel right to me, much as I'd have liked to believe them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted August 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2009 Standing against sin is important, but so is acceptance in love. Some churches go too far in one direction, and some in the other. Homosexual Christians - sexually active or not - are too often ostracized and made to feel like no other Christian will accept them, and that God will not accept them either. As Christians we do need to accept them for who they are and love them just the same. We are all sinners, we know that. God calls us to love each other anyway. Not to the point of overlooking sin, but to the point of supporting each other and loving each other despite the sins each of us struggle with. The correct way to love a sexually active homosexual christian is to point them to what the Word says about their sin, that it nailed Christ to the cross and that they have no licence whatsoever to carry on in that lifestyle now that they know Christ. We are told not to accept their behavior. The sexually active homosexual who doesn't struggle against their sin is following their own desires and not Christ, and we should pray for their salvation. Agreed. But I haven't come across a single homosexual who claims Christ, who doesn't struggle against their sin. Whether they give in to it or not, it's a constant battle. More than anything, they need the support of other Christians to keep them from giving up and slipping back into a sinful lifestyle. Agreed. They need our support and prayers to stay on top of temptation. But they don't belong as ministers in the church. "Husbands of one wife".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixJLD Posted August 21, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2009 Agreed. But I haven't come across a single homosexual who claims Christ, who doesn't struggle against their sin. Whether they give in to it or not, it's a constant battle. More than anything, they need the support of other Christians to keep them from giving up and slipping back into a sinful lifestyle. Agreed. They need our support and prayers to stay on top of temptation. But they don't belong as ministers in the church. "Husbands of one wife".... Out of curiosity, do you think homosexual Christians who aren't sexually active should be allowed to serve in the ministry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HIS girl Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 ~andy~' But they don't belong as ministers in the church. "Husbands of one wife".... No practising homosexual should be serving as ministers etc in the Church. To allow that is going against Scripture. The "compromising Church" is in fact an enemy to the Word of God - it's that simple. The weight of God's Word has been replaced for the "word of man" in all it's lustful glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted August 21, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2009 Out of curiosity, do you think homosexual Christians who aren't sexually active should be allowed to serve in the ministry? Oh boy... opening a can of worms LOL. Yes, I think they can serve. If they are not in sin (in thought or deed) and are willing to preach the Word accurately (especially on this topic), then I see nothing wrong with it. Many pastors would freely admit that they struggle with lustful temptations, and I don't think this is any different. I think that these people have a powerful testimony to share about the power of God in their lives to resist sin and live for Him... Jude 1 (NASB) 24(BP)Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to (BQ)make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with (BR)great joy, 25to the (BS)only (BT)God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, (BU)be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, (BV)before all time and now and forever. Amen. 1 Cor 10:13 (NASB) 13No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and (A)God is faithful, who will not allow you to be (B)tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HIS girl Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Out of curiosity, do you think homosexual Christians who aren't sexually active should be allowed to serve in the ministry? andy- Yes, I think they can serve. If they are not in sin (in thought or deed) and are willing to preach the Word accurately (especially on this topic), then I see nothing wrong with it. HIS girl Honestly - how can one "prove" a gay member of Church isn't sexually active? 2 Corinthians 6 v 3: We give no offense in anything that our ministry may not be blamed. (The Apostle Paul). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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