charlesj Posted August 27, 2009 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 97 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) Recently, a friend of mine and I were talking about the original sin. And he came up with this question, "Why did God create Man (Adam and Eve) in the presence of Sin and Evil, as Sin was already present in the world." (and by the world, I don't mean earth, but universe, I may say!) I think it is very interesting and legitimate question. I know we won't be able to completely comprehend everything, but some good understanding / idea will be appreciated. Thanks. Hello BibleSEO: Original sin is something that "man" has come up with. God does NOT charge me with the sins of my dad, nor of my dad's dad. You can take this all wth way back to Adam. Now, Adam did bring "death" upon all mankind, but not his sin. I am a sinner because I sinned. Newborn babies DO NOT HAVE SIN. At some point in life a child will know right from wrong and sin eventually. Gnostics believed that the flesh was "good for nothing." (Completely evil) That's one of the reasons they had problems with the idea of "God in the Flesh" (Jesus). This where the idea of "born in sin" (flesh) comes from. John (and the 1st century Christians) were having problems with the Gnositics. ONe of the ways you could point out a Gnostic in John's day (we dont' have these problems today as most will confess Jesus has come in the flesh) was to ask "do you belive that Jesus has come in the flesh?" (1John 4:2ff) Augustine promoted the "original sin" idea and later, John Calvin. Today, most people will fight you if you tell them "I wasn't born in sin." Most believe this lie. Will this lie take you to hell? I don't know, but I do want TRUTH. May the Lord be with you, Semper Fi, Charles Jemeyson cjemeyson@satx.rr.com Hello charlesj, If I may...Paul tells us in Romans 7 that we do indeed have sin dwelling in us, in our very flesh. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God Edited August 28, 2009 by charlesj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesj Posted August 28, 2009 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 97 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2009 charlesj If we can inherit Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 If we can inherit Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesj Posted August 28, 2009 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 97 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2009 If we can inherit Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 If we can inherit Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesj Posted August 28, 2009 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 97 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2009 charlesj If we can inherit Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleSEO Posted August 28, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 46 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/13/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1977 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Hi Charles, I will try to communicate some of my understanding here. 1) Sinful Nature inherited through Adam's sin: Roman 5:18 - "Just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men." Romans 5:19 - "For just as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of one man the many will be made righteous." Genesis 5:3 - "When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image..." 2) Why Jesus did not inherit the Sinful Nature: Answer lies in the 'Virgin Birth' - Matthew 1:20 -""Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit." It is a mystery which honestly I do not understand fully. (May be someone can help.) 3) Why don't we inherit 'righteousness' from our parents, if we inherit 'sinful nature' from them? I believe, that we inherit sinful nature because of act of disobedience of Adam (i.e. original sin). We cannot inherit 'righteousness' from our ancestors (who have believed in Jesus), because it is not their own righteousness, but the righteousness of Jesus Christ. (Romans 5:19) [Jews in Jesus' time, had hard time believing similar notion that they were 'illegitimate' children, because they always believed that Abraham was their father and they were the people of promise. (Read John 8: 12-47)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest agua Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Recently, a friend of mine and I were talking about the original sin. And he came up with this question, "Why did God create Man (Adam and Eve) in the presence of Sin and Evil, as Sin was already present in the world." (and by the world, I don't mean earth, but universe, I may say!) I think it is very interesting and legitimate question. I know we won't be able to completely comprehend everything, but some good understanding / idea will be appreciated. Thanks. Even though God knew the choices Adam and Eve would make,and the ways they and we would walk,the angels did not.Justice must be served,and witnessed.So for God to be justified in His rule,good must be seen to triumph over evil.There must be a trial,not just a verdict. The first sin was in heaven when satan coveted God's authority.The angels were witness to this sin.They needed to see the outcome of satans folly,not just his destruction.And so do we. My thoughts only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Recently, a friend of mine and I were talking about the original sin. And he came up with this question, "Why did God create Man (Adam and Eve) in the presence of Sin and Evil, as Sin was already present in the world." (and by the world, I don't mean earth, but universe, I may say!) I think it is very interesting and legitimate question. I know we won't be able to completely comprehend everything, but some good understanding / idea will be appreciated. Thanks. As satan had already been kicked out of heaven, there was sin in the universe someplace. There was sin found in him, so apparently God's created beings had the choice to rebel or obey God. God used that reasoning, I am sure when he allowed Eve to be tempted. There is much we do not understand. Evie could have said no, but she did not. 2/3 of the angels in the heavenlies did not follow satan, although they could have. I believe God allows all of his creatures to make a choice about how whom they will serve. But if god allowed us to make that choice and, perhaps, expecting the outcome, why the punishment? If we're going to be punished for making the wrong choice, then why the choice at all? Kind of seems pointless to have free will if there's only one right answer to everything. You are free to disobey the laws of the land, but that does not take away the right of the state to impose the consequences for your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesj Posted August 29, 2009 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 97 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2009 charlesj Hello beccar777 Before you read this, I do want to impress upon you that I am not attacking anyone of this forum nor do I mean to offend anyone. I think WE all love the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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