Scudbuddy Posted August 6, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 340 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 6, 2004 (edited) I am not WOF, but in spite of some disagreements, I feel they are my brothers in Christ. (Do we not have disagreements with everybody about something.) Again, I stressed to not seek whose to blame, but I will make it clear that Jesus more than once said the healing didn't take place because of the lack of faith. My contention is to keep on knockin. God heals, we don't. Also, when you are sick, it is usually a time where your faith is most lacking. That is why when Jesus talked of the lack of faith, it was usually with the person praying. That doesn't totally alleviate the sick person of their lack of faith, but God isn't trying to keep score on these things. He is asking us to be persistant. To Die knocking on this door. Be happy doing it, but do it. One other thing. I am an evangelist that believes in faith healing. I have never once taken an offering. I have preached at many a place that did not pay my way. I have been to churches that took offerings for me, and did not give me a dime. I went back to those places. I have had people who love me dearly during some of the hardest times of my life financially ask me to name my gift. I refused. I told them if God didn't give them instruction to give me a certain amount, maybe they should keep their money. I believe in practically forcing people to make an effort to hear God. So be careful about lumping all of us "faith healers" in that package. I also know many like me who spend more on this calling than make. As a pastor the most money I ever made was $900 a month. That was for 80-100 hour weeks. I used to make $200 a month for 40 hour weeks. And I would do it again if God told me too. And I also know men who do not believe in this calling who are as bad as any Elmer Gantry out there. It is a human problem, not a faith healer problem. Edited August 6, 2004 by Scudbuddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jason-P Posted August 6, 2004 Share Posted August 6, 2004 I apologize if I offended you Scud. The remarks were in the context of the big healing services like Benny Hinn's(or so I thought). I wasn't on the roam on anybody that used the word "faith" in their sermons at some point. I applaude you on your selflessness for the Church of the Living God. I hope when my time comes I can be as faithfull as you. God bless, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudbuddy Posted August 6, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 340 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 6, 2004 Jason, Thank you. My heart about that was not from being offended. I have been on forums for a long time, and believe me, your words were not unkind. I just try to effect change of heart toward this noble profession that has been so maligned by the Elmer Gantrys of the world. Paul, Peter, John, and the rest of the disciples were all "Faith Healers." So that was my heart about that. Be in peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
learning Posted August 7, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 38 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/09/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2004 WOW! You said a mouthful! I couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted August 8, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2004 Jason-P, I'm in total agreement with you in here. There are few things that offend me more than when I hear someone say that lack of faith equals no healing. When ppl are wounded and sick, the last thing they need is for fellow believers to criticize them for their lack of faith. Too many Christians have allowed faith to become a point of pride. Why do you think Paul said that faith itself is a gift in Ephesians 2:8,9 reminding us that it's not anything of ourselves at all? Faith is something no Christian should ever measure against another or take pride in. Scripture is VERY clear that faith is a gift, not something we muster up on our own. (Romans 10:17 is another example) Also, if you're equation is this: little faith = no healing more faith = healing Then how do you explain what Jesus said in Matthew 17:20? According to Him it takes very little faith to move a mountain. Also, when you are sick, it is usually a time where your faith is most lacking. Scriptural support for this please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgolvach Posted August 8, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 110 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,254 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2004 It's amazing how Benny Hinn is selective with the conditions he claims to heal. Why is there never anyone with I.B.S. showing up at the platform. I can think of all kinds of embarrassing but legitimate health conditions that he could tackle but he would have to show the proof. Maybe he could show up at Texas Children's Hospital and clear out the cancer ward. How could you even believe in God and do the devilish things that are done on TBN. I wonder how many non-believers flip through the channels and catch a glimps of this foolishness and are left with the impression that Christians are all nut jobs. Don't we have a big enough battle to fight? It's not Christian Television. If anything, it's Satan's masterpiece!!!!! Im sure there are some true Christians that have appeared on that channel, I hope they stop. God is not a vending machine!!!!$$$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow2b Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 -Infirmity has 6 different meanings depending on how it is used. English is not a deep enough language to hold it. Our understanding of infirmity is not the total understanding of infirmity. - -GAL.4.vss.12.Thru.15 -Brethren, I urge you to become like me, for I became like you. You have not -injured me at all. You know that because of physical infirmity I preached the -gospel to you at the first-. --And my trial which -was in my-flesh ----you did not despise -or reject, but you -received -me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. What then was the blessing you enjoyed? For I bear you witness that, if possible,----you-would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me. -hmm??-I wonder IF Poor deluded-olde-Paul-had become delerious & didn't-even know HE had-- --NO PHYSICAL INFIRMITY{ EYES??mebby?}-in his flesh after all??-I Reckon?? -MEBBY Paul was suffering {in his EYES}-because the BRIGHT-LIGHT{of JESUS-& HIS GLORY}-that caused Paul to go BLIND -for those THREE days after his damascus Road Experience--Mebby had sumthin ta do with his {PHYSICAL-INFIRMITY-}-OF the EYES??---Mebby-so??----I--Reckon??-I kinda-Reckon I'LL STICK with Brother Paul's OWN WORDS--I Reckon-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudbuddy Posted August 8, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 340 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2004 Tess, I think you are speaking to me. That quote about when people are sick usually struggling with their faith is my observation. And my point was to say that if someone blames the person for not getting healed because they lack faith; that first, so did the person who prayed for that person, and the person getting prayer is usually in a place of weakness and not a place of "Overcoming faith." But that is an observation, and not something that I can pull out of scripture. I also made it clear that when Jesus talked about it being a "lack of faith", he was always talking to the disciples faith condition. They were the ones praying and seeing no results. He never rebuked the person receiving prayer. So I believe Jesus understood how hard it is to be full of faith when you are the one sick. Also I stressed that what really matters is that we keep on Knocking. Not that we assign blame on who has faith, and who doesn't. To me, Faith is more an action anyways. It takes faith to move toward God instead of moving toward our own understanding. To me, that is true faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudbuddy Posted August 8, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 340 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2004 Shadow, One of the other verses that is quoted often to prove an eye problem. It is called an expression. Let us look at that expression from a biblical viewpoint. Who else used that very one. Jesus. "If your eyes cause you to stumble, pluck them out." If you put it into its context, you will see without a doubt that it is just an expression of how much they loved Paul. And how things had changed. KJV says those verses different by the way. Paul keeps on referring to his temptation in the flesh as his infirmity. That is nothing that someones eyes being plucked out could help. Just an expression that someone who is desperate to show as an eye problem grabs at. I would give you my right arm to prove it. (Oh, by the way, I didn't mean to say that you are an amputee.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow2b Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 -If your eyes cause you to stumble, pluck them out." If you put it into its context, you will see without a doubt that it is just an expression of how much they loved Paul. And how things had changed. -JESUS DID NOT SAY{IF YOUR EYES} PLURAL-{as in BOTH EYES}-Cause you to offend!!!!-RATHER JESUS STATED: -MATT.18.vs.9---- -And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. -AND brother scudbuddy---did you READ GAL.4.????? - Brother PAUL stated HE had AN INFIRMITY OF THE FLESH--RELATING TO HIS EYES--- -GAL.4.vss.12.Thru.15----- -Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me -at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you -at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor -rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is -then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been --possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me. -Sooooooo--MR. Scudbuddy SIR: -I Still kinda Believe Poor- Olde-BLIND- Brother Paul would KNOW better What HE was talking about RATHER than some Theological Theorum Which Flies in the Face of Contradiction BY Poor--BLIND-OLDE-Brother Paul----Sooooooo--MR. Brother Scuddbuddy SIR - -This {Physical-Infirmity-of the EYES}-was GIVEN Paul to KEEP HIM HUMBLE-Because of being {caught up to the Third-Heaven}& seeing things it was Not Lawful to speak of--- -It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. For I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I don't know, or whether out of the body, I don't know; God knows),such a one caught up into the third heaven. I know such a man (whether in the body, or outside of the body, I don't know; God knows), how he was caught up into Paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. On behalf of such a one I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except in my weaknesses. For if I would desire to boast, I will not be foolish; for I will speak the truth. But I forbear, so that no man may account of me above that which he sees in me, or hears from me.By reason of the exceeding greatness of the revelations,that I should not be exalted excessively, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, that I should not be exalted excessively-Concerning this thing, I begged the Lord three times that it might depart from me. He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." -- Most gladly therefore I will rather glory in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest on me.Therefore I take pleasure in weaknesses, in injuries, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then am I strong. -Again Poor-Olde-Blind-Brother Paul Comfirms HE has an{Infirmity of the Flesh}- -{EYES??Possibly??}-Which was given Poor-Olde-Blind-Brother-Paul--To keep HIM--HUMBLE--Plus I kinda "Think"ALL those Trips to Jail & the devil persecuting him--& -Having him beaten with a scourge-{three-Times}assaulted & beaten & left for DEAD---Conspiracies by the {Religious Leaders}to KILL HIM--The shipwreck--The snake biting him---Were ALL attempts by the devil{Inspired by the devil--ennyhowe}To KILL Paul----These were ALL {as described by Poor-Olde-Blind-Brother-Paul}-{Other Thorns} in the flesh--To BUFFET---Paul------SO that HE was NOT-{-EXALTED-}-Above Measure---Please READ Brother Paul's own words---HE had been a VERY--Prideful--MAN--IN THE LAW{Torah}A man accused of being {MAD!!-Crazy?--Book of Acts}because of {HIS MUCH LEARNING-}--Sooooo--ALL these things that happened to HIM were ALL events to KEEP-Paul-{HUMBLE}---Theologians may continue to have their "Theories" But that has "NO-AFFECT"-ON GOD'S WORD NOR PAULS TESTIMONIES--OR TEACHING--- -Thank you Mucho-Juaeno--Brother Scudbuddy for yo -Theories-They iZ moze Interestin buyT-WRONG-- :hug: :oww: -Et'Tu'-'Bru'te ?- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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