Healing Services

[apothanein kerdos]

The simple fact is sometimes it's not in God's Will for a person to be healed. Thus we pray for His Will to happen. This is not an apology, it is an acknowledgement of His soveriegnty.

[Scudbuddy]

God is God. His will is going to happen no matter how we pray. But when Jesus taught us to pray, His example was to pray with faith for the situation. Not a wishy washy prayer in which you haven't figured out whether or not His will is to heal.

Lets look at this from another angle. According to Jesus where did sickness come from. I am not trying to put sickness on the sick person because they are sinners. I am trying to show the roots of all sickness and death.

There was no sickness and death till their was sin. That is a given. Immediately the world entered into the place where things deteriorated quickly. Adams sin killed us. So Jesus comes into the world to redeem the world from the consequences of sin. He first forgives sin. But Jesus did not come just to do that. He healed bodies, delivered captives, preached the year of Jubilee to the poor, etc.....

He did things that were opposite of the law of sin and death. He showed His will right there. Now there were some who rejected His will. There were others who could not believe His will. But His will was shown and identified where ever He went. I can bring out many more verses about this than anybody can about whether or not it is Gods will to heal.

My point is this. To say it isn't Gods' will to heal is to say He has since had a change of heart about this issue. Luke 4:18 says one thing. Our disbelief says another. He comes to set the captive free; our disbelief says "what if it isn't His will."

Think of it like this. When I preach the gospel, do I preach a salvation message telling the lost "Let me pray to see if it is Gods will for you to be saved."

When Demoniacs come to me for deliverance, Do I tell them "Let me pray to see if it is Gods will for you to be delivered."

So how come I pray to see if it is Gods will on the other 1/3 of Luke 4:18. We accept it is Gods will to save all who come to Him. We accept that it is Gods will to deliver all who ask for deliverance. But we reject it is Gods will to heal all that come to Him.

Why? Because the reality is, we have not seen him heal all that have come to Him. So we have come up with this false doctrine of "If it be thy will."

He announced His will. We just don't believe it. The fault isn't on His end. It is on our end. Both the person who prays and the person prayed for. No big deal. Press through until the anwser comes. Yes, sometimes people will die, get sicker, or stay sick. But the Lord told us to press through for these things. Not to give into doubt. And in the end His will will be done. They might get healed, die, stay sick, or get sicker.

I know one thing. I have seen a lot more healings praying through with faith than without. I have rarely seen "If it be thy will" prayers ever see a healing.

[apothanein kerdos]

It is my belief that you're taking much of this out of context. For one we know Timothy had a digestive problem. It has to be severe enough as to cause him to write to Paul about it. Thus Paul offered a remedy. Paul spoke about his thorn in the flesh. However, when we see the miracles that Jesus performed and try to convey a healing message off of them, we are taking them prima facia and not exploring the meaning of them. I will adress this later.

Before I can, I must show that it is sometimes God's Will to allow us to be sick, or even to take us home.

The one consistent factor we notice is the prayers of Jesus is that He always ask, "Not my will but Yours". While He prays and list His request (i.e. "Take this cup from me..."), He finalizes the prayer by asking for God to supercede His needs and to follow through with His Will. God will not heal everyone. This is a pure and simple fact. We will all die. Someone with cancer can have all the faith in the world God is going to heal them, but this does not mean He will. If it is their appointed time to die, God will not heal them. Instead God will let them go on through the cancer, and those around will have a valuable lesson to learn from the expirience.

With this in mind, what is the point of having miracles in the bible? Why do I need to know about Jesus healing people? The purpose of miracles is to show that we are sinners deformed by our sin nature. It is by faith in accepting Christ that we are healed from our sin.

[Scudbuddy]

Super Jew,

Did you read what I said. I never said God will heal you everytime. I said our job was to pray for healing. His will will be done everytime. I acknowledged that people die, get sicker, or stay sick. Or just maybe even get healed.

I stated that like salvation and deliverance, His will has been established in Luke 4:18,19 What did it say?

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because He hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent me to heal the broken-hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised. To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.........

Vs.21 This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."

Unless of course it is not my will. (That is the paraphrased Unbelievers translation.)

And Jesus only prayed once "If it be thy will." And that was about the suffering on the cross that He was about to have.

The Lords prayer is "Thy will be done." Not "If it is your will to be done."

In fact it goes like this.

"Thy Kingdom Come, Thy will be done.

On Earth as it is in Heaven!"

How many sick people are in Heaven?

Why do you have faith to pray for someone to get saved just by believing in Jesus? Yes you might have to pray that person through their unforgiveness, and bondages. But do you ask if it is Gods will to save that person?

Why do you believe that demons will flee everytime you command them to go in Jesus name? Yes you might have to stay awhile while you take away the legal ground that the enemy has established that has allowed them to demonize that person. But do you ask if it is Gods will to deliver that person?

So why don't you have the same faith for healing? It is one of the things that Jesus said He came to do! God is wanting to establish His will on Earth as it is in Heaven. Why do you question that?

And let us look at Pauls "Thorn in the flesh." He called it a Spirit that was following him around reminding him of his human fraility. Theologians later came around with their unbelief at the idea of a spirit following Paul around, and turned it into Paul having an illness. Because He wrote in large letters, they made it sound like he had an eye problem. Of course that would make his healing after the road of Damascus rather short term. And if that is not distorting the scriptures, I don't know what is.

Paul wrote large letters as in long letters. To make it into an eye problem is ridiculous. And if that is not distorting the scriptures, I don't know what is.

And I acknowledged the one time in the NT where someone was sick, and did not get healed. I don't live in denial of that. But again, that did not mean that the church stopped praying for this person, or that the person did not eventually get healed. And if that is not distorting the scriptures, I don't know what is.

Also everyday when we eat, we can experience some gastric problems. Paul gave advice to Timothy to take a little wine for his digestive system. We take that verse and make it look like Tim was sick, and Paul was powerless to help him through prayer. And if that is not distorting the scriptures, I don't know what is.

[ServingHim]

Excuse me, but how do you know that it is ALWAYS God's will to physically heal someone? Is He not also glorified in suffering? Which is most important to God: things which are temporal or things that are eternal in nature?

And also, you say it is a matter of faith. Therefore, if a person is not healed ..their amount of faith is immediately brought into question. Correct? Tell me then, what about Paul?

Personally, I believe God's ways are not our ways. Sometimes He chooses to heal, other times He chooses not to. I think alot of times ppl find it easier to blame a person's faith because it shakes their own to consider God would allow someone to suffer for His glory. Oh ye of little faith who presume upon God that He should heal every ailment that you suffer. If your faith is so strong and so great, trust Him enough to accept His will...whether that mean you are physically healed or not. Trust His heart and His purpose..even if it means you don't get your way.

SO well put!

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Healing is bibical and you know it.

[Scudbuddy]

Serving him,

Again, never said anything about Gods will being prayed against. I just established that BIBLICALLY, and not just theoretically, His will has been established. "Thy Kingdom Come, Thy WILL be done. On earth as it is in Heaven."

And there is no sick people in heaven.

WILL ESTABLISHED!

As to why not all sick people are healed? Why are not all people that we pray for to get saved not saved? I have prayed for all kinds of people to get saved. They die heathens. Should I have prayed "If it be thy will to save them?" Same exact thing.

But we need to give ourselves and God a way out. So we provide it with a prayer of unbelief. It sounds good. Sounds like we just want God to do whatever He wants to do. But if scripture has already established His will, then it is just our way of excusing ourselves and explaining away what God did not do. Sounds harsh. Probaly. But it is meant to help us stop making excuses and knock on heavens door with perserverance like Jesus told us too.

I am going to pray the way Jesus prayed. I am going to think the way Jesus told me to think. The logic of this world which is always doubting and so fickle about the miraculous is my enemy. "The Carnal mind is at war with God." I will pray as if Jesus actually meant what He said when He said "If you have the faith the size of a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain Be thou removed!"

And that kind of faith doesn't make a disclaimer after saying "Be thou removed! If it is your will."

Sorry, if that offends anyone. But while believing this, I have seen deaf ears opened, blind eyes see, and the lame walk, and I have personally seen the dead raised. And I have yet to meet one person that I know that prays that way that has seen any of that through their own prayer of faith. Not one. And those I know overseas who see miracles on a routine basis also do not pray that way. Westerners pray that way. It fits with their Western mindset and their impotentence in prayer. :x:

[Guest love2hug]

My think God's will is for nobody to be sick--why would he take those stripes on the cross if He didn't want that for us? I think different things stand in our way of getting healed. Here is an example in my life--I was bulimic (posted in testimonies) asked for prayer--begged God to take it from me. But you know what--a little part of me did not want to let go. How can God heal me of that when I truely didn't want him to? I did not realize that till He showed me why I wasn't being healed--once I truely gave it to Him--He set me free!!!

Anyway, that is what I believe--be gentle with me--I am kind of new to Worthy Boards. :sweating:

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Serving him,

Again, never said anything about Gods will being prayed against. I just established that BIBLICALLY, and not just theoretically, His will has been established. "Thy Kingdom Come, Thy WILL be done. On earth as it is in Heaven."

And there is no sick people in heaven.

WILL ESTABLISHED!

As to why not all sick people are healed? Why are not all people that we pray for to get saved not saved? I have prayed for all kinds of people to get saved. They die heathens. Should I have prayed "If it be thy will to save them?" Same exact thing.

But we need to give ourselves and God a way out. So we provide it with a prayer of unbelief. It sounds good. Sounds like we just want God to do whatever He wants to do. But if scripture has already established His will, then it is just our way of excusing ourselves and explaining away what God did not do. Sounds harsh. Probaly. But it is meant to help us stop making excuses and knock on heavens door with perserverance like Jesus told us too.

I am going to pray the way Jesus prayed. I am going to think the way Jesus told me to think. The logic of this world which is always doubting and so fickle about the miraculous is my enemy. "The Carnal mind is at war with God." I will pray as if Jesus actually meant what He said when He said "If you have the faith the size of a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain Be thou removed!"

And that kind of faith doesn't make a disclaimer after saying "Be thou removed! If it is your will."

Sorry, if that offends anyone. But while believing this, I have seen deaf ears opened, blind eyes see, and the lame walk, and I have personally seen the dead raised. And I have yet to meet one person that I know that prays that way that has seen any of that through their own prayer of faith. Not one. And those I know overseas who see miracles on a routine basis also do not pray that way. Westerners pray that way. It fits with their Western mindset and their impotentence in prayer. :x:

Amen bro....I totally agree.

God is always willing to fulfill his promises but he needs vessels of faith to receive it. Yes the western church is full of vessels of unbelief.

It seems the things in the bible that do not require much faith are occasionally excepted but the things in the bible that require much faith are totally rejected and despised by the Western church.

We like to mix a a little science with our faith, but they do not mix.

How does science explain how red blood can wash away our sins or how whip marks of torture upon the Jesus's back heal us.

The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that are perishing but to those that believe its the power of God.

[Scudbuddy]

I am telling you now. If you want the very best book on healing and the miraculous, get Bill Johnsons book "When Heaven Invades Earth." It is not just theoretical. It is being experienced right now. He so much better says what I so poorly am trying to convey. God is actually God, and can actually do anything and everything whenever and whereever He wants to. :oww: