Will post and mid trib people miss a pre-trib one?

[whatsitmean]

[whatsitmean]

whatsitmean... i just cannot believe the words you used are your own,it sounds more like you're reading from some book & posting it word for word, & that i am NOT confused about----

ie.-- [THE BIBLE is an integrated message system??] [that means it is a unified, harmonious, interrelated arrangement of information??]

[Guest Brother Ben]

I'm a pan tribulationist. I've heard all the views/scriptures/reasons and could argue every side of this silly debate.

                         However, one would be hard pressed to find a christan in Muslim/communist countries who didn't think they  were going through great tribulation. Is it only America that is promised to escape this?

                         And another thing....we will be changed in an instant if a thermonuclear device goes off within a few miles of us.

                         It's a mystery for a reason. We should be prepared for anything. Anyone smug enough to have G-d in this little  box will be surprised.

May i answer that mystery?

First of all God is going to do what  HE IS GOING TO DO and our opinions are not going to change His mind at all. Therefore there is no need to fight over the rapture question.  What a wise person would do is to understand what the scriptures say.

First of all the rapture in no way effects your salvation in Christ. That was freely given as a gift and will not be taken away. If anyone differs in this view, that is okay. I am a firm believer in the eternal security of the believer. That aside.

1 Pet 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The discussion of the rapture of the church is in reality a discussion of judgement at the house of God, and again this is not salvation related.  Notice in the following verses that Christ is going to cast some believers into tribulation.

Rev 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Notice also in the following verses

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Again this is not salvation. It is rather who will recieve a crown and who will not. Salvation is freely given, but a crown is won. The reason for the crown they had kept the word.

Notice the warning let no man steal thy crown! Now you may ask how could a crown be lost or stolen.  The answer lies within the confines of the  two groups of scriptures.  

One group was committing spiritual fornication while the other group had kept the word.

Consider the following scriptures.

Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Most of you know that Christ is coming again and every eye will see him. How can he come as a thief in the night also?  He cannot unless He is talking about seperate instances.

Many christians that fervently debate the post and pre trib doctorine fail to consider that they both could be right but at the same time wrong. In truth both sides of the debate have solid scriptures behind them.

In truth we are debating two separate occurrences, and while i am pre trib i am also post trib.  Ps. I plan on going in the first group. It is the seventh trump of God that announces the wrath of God to be poured out and it is also the seventh trump that raises the dead in Christ.

The seventh trump in the book of revelation is the last trump, there is no eight trumpet.

1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Please note; This is just before the set up of the millennial reign of Jesus Christ for a thousand years

Those that are taken in the pre tribulation rapture will fulfill the following verses.

Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

That nation does not, and never has existed.

Those that partake in the pre trib rapture will fulfill the following scripture!

Isa 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

It is this nation that will inherit the kingdom of God, promised to those that love him.

This is the nation that will live in the holy land for eternity, with Jesus Christ.  This is the nation that He is going to make the Jewish people jealous over. And we can be part of it.

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Brother Ben Selah

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Bro. Ben Selah,

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

That nation does not, and never has existed.

The Greek word for "nation" above is the word "ethnos" which more commonly is interpreted "peoples" and is often used to refer to the "gentiles". So I suggest you reinterpret your paradigm in lieu of the fact that the Apostles were sent to the gentiles AFTER the cross to deliver the message of the "Kingdom".

Your Servant in Christ,

Dad Ernie

[eve]

Hi everyone,

Just a re-cap of my previous posts - the following points for ya'll to ponder (though it's partly in response to Bro Ben's post):-

1.

[Matthitjah]

Hi eve,

Good to see you back.

Blessings to you. Hope all is well in your part of the World.

Peace :inlove: Amen

[eve]

Hey, whassup Doc?

(Sorry, couldn't resist saying that! Hehe!)

How are you doing?  Been going thru' some trials but otherwise, PTL, I'm doing fine here. Thanks!

Gotta let you know I've made certain amendments to my above post.

Catch you around in this forum.  Love, Peace and Joy always.

[Guest shadow2b]

Hi Ernie and Dr. Luke.

[Guest shadow2b]

Whatsitmean, a post-trib rapture has no credibility in OT models? Yeah, like millions of people suddenly disappeared all the time throughout the OT, huh? I must have missed those stories...