Guest Xan Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 Okie, I'm not going to crucify you, but why would God tell His people to come out of Babylon if Babylon is where He is going to save a large number of Jews just before His second coming, which will occur in God's city of Jerusalem? Please see Zecharriah 12-14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest okiejack Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 The buildings don't have to be there for GOD to do His will. And the coming out of her would be good advice for GOD's people. If in fact the city will be destroyed? The description fits according to Jesus own words and the words of the Old Testament prophets. If this is not true then why was John "amazed" when he saw who the woman was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xan Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 I'm not talking about buildings. Zecharriah was not talking about buildings, in fact he was talking about people in Jerusalem- Jewish people in Jerusalem. As far as John being amazed, that could mean anything. That could be used as circumstantial evidence for who I think Babylon is with no more or less validity, but that is so weak, I am not using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest okiejack Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Did you review the words that GOD used to berate the Nation of Israel in the books of the Old Testament prophets? I'm not here to bash Jews. It's just that the description of the woman riding the beast uses the same words as GOD does in berating the children of Israel. Also, the fact that the woman is riding a beast that represents other nations. How many nations in todays world are supported by other nations like Israel is supported? Israel would not last ten minutes with out those other nation's support. Why was John amazed? Why would the fact that John was amazed be included if it was not important? Does the Bible mention anyother nation that is responsible for the blood of the prophets? Why would the Nation in question be represented by a woman who is a harlot? Read Hosea. I'm convinced I've got a good position. It's not a political correct position but, I think it has stronger Biblical support than any other position I've seen yet. But then I never was perfect. So I could be wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Levi Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Why can't it be Iraq?Same reason it can't be the Catholics, it doesn't fit the description. Rev.17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. How many kings does Iraq reign over? Answer=0 How many kings of the earth are Catholic or being ruled over by Catholics??? Not that many. How many kings does America rule over? Answer=just about all. Also it is clear that it is an economic power. Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. Revelation 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: Revelation 18:15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, Revelation 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!(how many people would call Iraq great or reverence Iraq?) Revelation 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. Revelation 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. The American culture of materialism is saturating the earth and primarily because of the rich American businesses, the merchants. America fits the description perfectly, a powerful materialistic nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xan Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 Okie, I don't believe in PC. Now, please answer my question: If Israel is Babylon, why does God tell His people to leave if that is the exact place where He is going to save 1/3 of the Jews? BTW, Israel has murdered God's prophets in the past. Currently, they are not murdering prophets or Christians. Currently, the only nations that are murdering God's people are Muslim and Totalitarian nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 Did you review the words that GOD used to berate the Nation of Israel in the books of the Old Testament prophets? I'm not here to bash Jews. It's just that the description of the woman riding the beast uses the same words as GOD does in berating the children of Israel. Also, the fact that the woman is riding a beast that represents other nations. How many nations in todays world are supported by other nations like Israel is supported? Israel would not last ten minutes with out those other nation's support. Why was John amazed? Why would the fact that John was amazed be included if it was not important? Does the Bible mention anyother nation that is responsible for the blood of the prophets? Why would the Nation in question be represented by a woman who is a harlot? Read Hosea. I'm convinced I've got a good position. It's not a political correct position but, I think it has stronger Biblical support than any other position I've seen yet. But then I never was perfect. So I could be wrong? Have you read through my thread The Beast of Rev. 13? It is a partial result of many years of my own prayer study on this matter, (not insinuating your perspective isn't such a result). I believe John wouldn't be surprised if it was Israel for exactly those same verses in Hosea. Israel had been in 2 captivites and under 5 different Empires domination for playing the harlot. Why would John be amazed now . . . being a prisoner for his faith and all . . . The chapters of Revelation from 13-19 deal with the fate of the "beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition" as well as other events . . . Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest okiejack Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 Xan, Sorry about not answering your question. Could you give me the scripture you are referring to on the "come out of Babylon" and the "saving 1/3 of Israel". Is this the scripture? """""""""""""Zec 2:6 "Up, up! Flee from the land of the north," says the LORD; "for I have spread you abroad like the four winds of heaven," says the LORD. Zec 2:7 "Up, Zion! Escape, you who dwell with the daughter of Babylon."""""""""""""&quo t;""" Israel already left Babylon after this prophecy was made. I think this prophecy was fulfilled. But the Israelites turned their back on GOD again. Are you saying that Zec 2:6-7 is the same as Rev 18:4? """""""""Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues."""""""""" Anyway I have not located the "saving 1/3" yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xan Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 Sorry, I realize I should have been more clear. In Rev. 18, God tells His people to come out of Babylon. In Zech. 12 and 13, Jews are in Jerusalem being saved just before His return. Zech. 13:8 " 'It will come about in all the land,' declares the Lord, 'That two parts in it will be cut off and perish; but the third will be left in it.' " Read all of chapters 12 and 13 to get the full message that this is about the salvation of the Jews while they are in Jerusalem. If Israel is Babylon, then God will be telling His people to leave. How can that be the case, when He saves 1/3 of the inhabitants of Jerusalem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest okiejack Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 BlindSeeker, """""""""""Have you read through my thread The Beast of Rev. 13?""""""""""""""&am p;qu ot;" No not yet. """""""""""It is a partial result of many years of my own prayer study on this matter, (not insinuating your perspective isn't such a result)."""""""""""""& ;quo t;"" Thanks I've spent a few decades trying to decipher John's Revelation. My problem is that everybody has an explaination that sounds good to me. So I quit reading interpretations and am trying to figure it out myself. """"""""""""I believe John wouldn't be surprised if it was Israel for exactly those same verses in Hosea. Israel had been in 2 captivites and under 5 different Empires domination for playing the harlot. Why would John be amazed now . . . being a prisoner for his faith and all . . .""""""""""""""" ; Maybe John believed that GOD would physically deliver Israel as a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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