The Mysterious Woman

[Guest okiejack]

Xan, """""""""""Read all of chapters 12 and 13 to get the full message that this is about the salvation of the Jews while they are in Jerusalem.  If Israel is Babylon, then God will be telling His people to leave.  How can that be the case, when He saves 1/3 of the inhabitants of Jerusalem?"""""""""""""&q

uot;

Okay Thanks. I'll review those chapters. I'm thinking that the third saved will be the ones who "come out of her", maybe?

But I enjoy your questions it's the best way I've found to learn. Try to poke them holes so we can grow.

[Guest Xan]

I'll wait to respond until you have read the chapters, but just to let you know, I'm chomping at the bit to respond to your speculation.

[Guest okiejack]

Xan, I've read and re-read 12 and 13. I can't explain it. But it seems that the prophecy is not a good one for Israel as a whole as indicated by 12:1.

""""""Zec 12:1  The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:"""""""

And unless we revert to horse travel I think 12:4 rules out now or the future.

""""""Zec 12:4  "In that day," says the LORD, "I will strike every horse with confusion, and its rider with madness; I will open My eyes on the house of Judah, and will strike every horse of the peoples with blindness.""""""

12:10 is the enigma. Sounds like it's talking about Christ but it may be the GOD feels "pierced" by the inappropriate behavior of the children of Israel.

"""""""Zec 12:10  "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn."""""""""

13:2 The only time I know of that the prophets were cut off from Israel was during the 400+ years prior to the Birth of John the Baptist.

""""""Zec 13:2  "It shall be in that day," says the LORD of hosts, "that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, and they shall no longer be remembered. I will also cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to depart from the land.""""""

No. I don't think 12 and 13 are talking about the "end times". I think 14 is though. I think 12 and 13 are about the period between the last prophet in Israel and the destruction of Israel in 70CE. I think the third are the one's who accepted Jesus. The third is GOD's remnant that He always keeps in Jerusalem.

So that's my thoughts, such as they are.

Your turn.

[Guest Xan]

There weren't any destinctions between the three chapters, particularly since there were not any chapter and verse distinctions when it was written.  In the prophesies, there are alot of metaphores.  Even though God knew about tanks, jeeps, and other forms of warfare, Zecharriah did not.  In other words, I don't think he was literally talking about horses.  God has not yet saved 1/3 of Jerusalem, so it cannot be talking about a past event, but a future one.

[Guest okiejack]

Xan, I don't think the horses and riders thing is a metaphore because this is GOD talking directly to Zach. This is not a vision. I realize that there were no Chapters and verse in the original manuscripts. However, verse 12:1 explains what the words of GOD are "against Israel";

""""""Zec 12:1  The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:"""""""

GOD has always saved a "rimnant" of Israel for Himself.

[Guest]

Maybe John believed that GOD would physically deliver Israel as a  Nation, same as most people believe today?

That was their belief up until the day of pentecost, but after that they understood the plan of God for literal Israel.

"The chapters of Revelation from 13-19 deal with the fate of the "beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition" as well as other events . . . "

Not in my Bibles. Rev 17:15 through  Rev 18:24 are dealing with the harlot riding the beast in my Bibles. What type of Bible do you have?

Yes, of course. You are correct, yet the woman, representing the false religious systems, merges with civil government structure (the eighth beast) in the last days. Together they go into perdition.

[Adstar]

Hello all

I feel like a babe in the woods here but I think that this passage from the bible needs to be addressed.

Revelation 11

The Witnesses Killed

7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow[2] their dead bodies to be put into graves.

So the two prophets will be killed in the city "where also our Lord was crucified" That has to be Jerusalem. Why is Jerusalem referred to as Sodom and Egypt spiritually? Is this not the city that is at the center of the current struggle of the Jews and the Palestinians? Will the winner turn it into a place that spiritually will be "Sodom and Egypt"? Or has it been that way for some time? Why do people refer to this place as the holy city? Is it?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Guest okiejack]

Adstar, Good point. Just because GOD loves His chosen people doesn't mean those He loves are always holy.

I hadn't connected the place where the two prophets prophecy and die with the harlot riding the beast yet. But thanks for the insight. This lends more support to the idea that the Jewish Nation called Israel is the harlot riding the beast.

[munari]

Interesting thread... can't believe I just now saw it...

Anyways, I would like to suggest that Rev could have been speaking of a place in their time. Pagan Rome would very much foot the bill on all counts.

I think its dangerous to try and match up the whore with any nation today... people have been doing it for years, and none have panned out. Its similar to those who say they know when the end of the world is coming and then are wrong.

[Guest okiejack]

""""Anyways, I would like to suggest that Rev could have been speaking of a place in their time. Pagan Rome would very much foot the bill on all counts. """

This point has already been made. The description includes "was, is not, and will be" so the Roman Empire doesn't fit. Because the Roman Empire existed when John got his revelation.