Mystery Babylon

[Guest Strservant]

This is the first topic I have ever started so if I am putting this in the wrong place feel free to move it Mods.

The Babylon talked about in Revelation, I would like to get some thoughts and Scripture about what you might think this is. My reason for asking is, I have heard those who have said it is literally Babylon (current day Iraq) and others especially those outside the United States (who are Christians) say that the descriptions containe in Revelation 18 sound alot like the United States of today. I am not saying this is true and I don't believe this is true, however, I wanted to hear what my brothers and sisters on WB thought of this.

Respectfully,

Strservant

(Gary)

[Guest charlie]

Revelation 18 in my opinion is speaking about ancient pagan Rome, which ruled the world; no-one thought Rome (a Queen) would come to an end as a world power. I think it also refers to that "anti-christ" system. Ancient Rome was such a system and persecuted the "Church" (Christians).

Ancient Rome was composed of many (diverse) peoples and her fall imo represents the total destruction of the enemies of God's people, Christians. I think we'll see this same system again when the anti-christ is revealed in the future.

I tend to think most of Rev. 18 is very symbolic.

This could turn into a long discussion because "Babylon" is mentioned many times elsewhere in Rev. Jerusalem could also be Babylon.

Edited August 19, 2004 by charlie

[Old Timer]

Babylon in Rev. 17, 18 and the first verses of 19 is the false religion (Church) that has existed since Nimrod. Long discussion, but that is what I think.

Rev. 18:7 "...Because she says in her heart, I sit as a queen, and I am not a widow..." She thinks she is the bride (not a widow) of the King (Christ).

Read the those chapters with that in mind and I think you will see it.

[Guest charlie]

The "Church" is the Bride of Christ; are you referring to Judaism (the widow?)?

[Old Timer]

Charlie, this woman (harlot) CLAIMS to be the bride of Christ. She is NOT. She is not Judasim. Before Christ Judasim was the true religion. She is the false church. But she claims to be the true religion. She has many harlot daughters. She has fornicated with the kings of the earth. She holds a cup of abominations. She is clothed in purple and scarlet, she is a city, etc.s and etc. Put on your Sherlock Holmes cap and smoke that curved pipe. Who do you suspect?

[Guest charlie]

If you are suggesting the Roman Catholic Church, which I think you are doing, I'd have to say you are wrong. I've read the argument of those who say the RCC is Babylon and I've read the Catholic rebuttal to this accusation. I can honestly say the Catholic rebuttal makes a lot more sense scripturally to me.

[Old Timer]

Charlie, yes I think the RC church is part of it, but only a part. As I said in my previous post this is a lengthy topic.

Turning away from God started in Babylon (the plains of Shinar) with Nimrod. It has continued up to the present day with false teaching.

In Revelation this Mystery, the Great Whore, will finally come into its fullness (Christ's Church is gone) and I think the RC church will be part of it.

Sir Isaac Newton wrote around 1700 of the whore,

[Guest charlie]

In Revelation this Mystery, the Great Whore, will finally come into its fullness (Christ's Church is gone) and I think the RC church will be part of it.

Well, I agree that when the "end times" do eventually arrive, the "Church" will have to go underground. It's been done before; the early Christians met in the catecombs; the Russian Christians (Eastern Orthodox) had to meet secretly at risk to life and limb for 70 yrs. Even if it comes to that the "Church" will prevail till the end.

Still I disagree that the Whore, or Babylon that is talked about in Revelation is the Church. I think it will be Jerusalem or a "pagan Rome" type government complete with "new age" and "false christianity".

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings All,

Let's do a study of this name - Babylon:

The first mention of this "great city" is found here:

Genesis 11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

0894 Babel {baw-bel'}

from 01101; TWOT - 197; n pr loc

AV - Babylon 257, Babylonian + 01121 3, Babel 2; 262

Babel or Babylon = "confusion (by mixing)"

1) Babel or Babylon, the ancient site and/or capital of

Babylonia (modern Hillah) situated on the Euphrates

I am reminded of Jesus words:

Matt 10:34-35 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

As with Babel, we see a MAJOR division come upon THE WHOLE WORLD. Jesus came to establish the Kingdom of God among men. This clearly sets men at variance with each other as indicated by the Mt. 10 verses. There are TWO major divisions now upon this earth. The ONE, the Kingdom of God, and the OTHER which is most often referred to as THE WORLD in the NT scriptures. The ONE is God centered with Christ at its Head. The other is of the god of THIS WORLD, where every type of evil exists.

So let's move on:

Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

As was recently pointed out to me, notice the COMMA between MYSTERY and BABYLON. What is intended by this is that the WHOLE is a MYSTERY, not just Babylon. You can verify this yourself with a good Greek lexicon.

And here is the Greek of the word Babylon:

897 Babulon {bab-oo-lone'}

of Hebrew origin 0894; TDNT - 1:514,89; n pr loc

AV - Babylon 12; 12

Babylon = "confusion"

1) a very large and famous city, the residence of the Babylonian

kings, situated on both banks of the Euphrates. Cyrus had formerly

captured it, but Darius Hystaspis threw down its gates and walls,

and Xerxes destroyed the temple of Belis. At length the city was

reduced to almost solitude, the population having been drawn off

by the neighbouring Seleucia, built on the Tigris by Seleucus

Nicanor.

2) of the territory of Babylonia

3) allegorically, of Rome as the most corrupt seat of idolatry and the

enemy of Christianity

Please note the Hebrew from which this Greek word is derived:

0894 apsinthos {ap'-sin-thos}

of uncertain derivation;; n f

AV - wormwood 2; 2

1) wormwood

2) the name of a star which fell into the waters and made them bitter

Now isn't that interesting. So let's take a look at the other reference to this word that is in Revelation:

Rev 8:10-11 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

Is it any wonder John felt the way he did here:

Rev 10:9-10 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. 10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

For indeed what John was being shown was literally making him sick to his stomach over what He was seeing/hearing.

Now, let's see you connect the dots as we look at the following verses:

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Rev 18:23-24 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

In case you missed my subtle insistense, Babylon is a One World/Religious government that will rule the WHOLE WORLD. The "false prophet" shall lead the ORGANIZED CHURCH into accepting this government. He will perform great miracles and will lead many astray. THIS IS WHAT MADE JOHN SO SICK TO HIS STOMACH.

But the TRUE "saints of God" shall be "called out" of the WORLD and built up and established IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD. Which literally means "the presence of God IN THEM."

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest Strservant]

First let me thank all of you for your posts. As I said before it gives me a grand view of most opinions that I can give further study to.

One question came to mind as I was reading your post Old Timer. You said that it was a false church that claimed to be the true religion. Could this be Islam (Muslims)? They claim to be the one true religion even to the point the Koran says to convert the heretics or kill them. What would be anyone's thoughts on this?

Respectfully,

Strservant