A Disgrace to God?

[Guest shiloh357]

1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And God permitting, we will do so.

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseto their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Hebrews 6:1-9

Help me understand the bold print. Does this mean if I fall away I will go to hell?

No it does not mean that. The context which goes back to chapter 5 pertains to spiritual immaturity. The complaint being made by the writer of Hebrews pertains to the spiritual immaturity and lack of spiritual growth of his audience. He is not accusing them of apostasy, but of simply being stagnate and complacent.

The term "fall away" in the Greek does not refer to apostasy or falling away from the faith. It refers to those who fall aside. The word picture is of someone who is running a race but falls aside to due to fatigue. Apostasy is a totally different word in the Greek.

If the passage were referring to falling away from the faith, it would seem to indicate that if you fall away, you are forever outside purview of redemption and could never return to the Lord, which is contrary to the God's revealed nature. Even staunch Arminians believe a person can be resaved if they fall away from the faith entirely. So this passage does not address falling away from the faith (apostasy).

[UncleAbee]

I believe many good things have been said in this post.

Heb 6:1-3 - 1Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. 3And this we will do, if God permits. - I believe this is discussing that at some point we should move beyond the elementary teachings of Christ. I believe "dead works" refer to works of the old law, works of our own merit, works of the flesh, etc. These works we have been cleansed from and need to move beyond. It is noticeable that the writer discusses also moving on from the basic teachings of "faith towards God." We are admonished to move on and to pursue perfection. Basically this set oof scriptures is again discussing that at some point we should move beyond an elementary understanding of Christ and salvation.

Heb 6:4-6 - "4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. - This is a clear passage on the possibility of apostasy of a believer in Christ. it is not discussing making mistakes or backsliding. It is discussing a believer who once enjoying the light of Christ having decided to put that light out. It is not impossible for God to renew this kind of person for all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27). Rather it is saying that it is impossible for us to renew that kind of person. Once they have blasphemed against Christ there is nothing we can do to renew them. It becomes more than a simple matter of us convincing them they are wrong and them repenting. They have committed a disastrous sin. They are actually rebelling against God. They have put their spiritual lights out. At this point only God can reignite the light if He chooses so. God does this by always leaving the door open for the apostate sinner. I have known people that have denied God and years later came back, repented, and sought reacceptance to the church. It is noteworthy that if you fall into this state and repent it is God's choice to renew you. Simon committed a disastrous sin of this type in Acts 8 by attempting to purchase HG power. In Acts 8:21 Peter told Simon that his heart was not right with God. Then Peter in Acts 8:22 told Simon to repent but there was no guarantee that the Lord would forgive Him. Peter uses the phrase "if possible" in Acts 8:22. This is definitely a sin we do not want to engage in. Once people fall away they typically (in my experience) do not return to the fold and are condemned by God.

Heb 6:7-9 - "7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. 9But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way." - I believe this is a summation of the before scriptures. If our fields do not produce good fruit we are in danger of God's judgment. The writer ends up by encouraging the saints though. The writer says that they are coinvinced that the saints being written to are on the right path but are being warned not to leave that path.

Just my thoughts.

Edited September 30, 2010 by UncleAbee

[~Shalhevet~]

Heb 6:4-6 - "4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. - This is a clear passage on the possibility of apostasy of a believer in Christ. it is not discussing making mistakes or backsliding. It is discussing a believer who once enjoying the light of Christ having decided to put that light out. It is not impossible for God to renew this kind of person for all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27).

I'm a bit confused because the scripture says that it is impossible but you are saying that it is possible.

[wyguy]

1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And God permitting, we will do so.

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseto their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Hebrews 6:1-9

Help me understand the bold print. Does this mean if I fall away I will go to hell?

Those verses refer to those contemporaries of Christ who witnessed His miracles, the healings, the deliverance from demons, as well as experiencing them, such as eating the food He miraculously created (John 6), and yet they still rejected Him with full knowledge and conscious experience. With full revelation they rejected the truth, concluding the opposite of the truth about Christ, and thus had no hope of being saved. They could never have more knowledge then they had when they rejected Him. They concluded that Jesus should be crucified and thus stood with His enemies.

There is no possibility of these verses referring to losing salvation. Many Scripture passages make it unmistakably clear that salvation is eternal (John 10:27-29; Romans 8:35, 38, 39; Philippians 1:6; 1 Peter 1:4-5). Those who want to make these verses mean that believers can lose salvation, will have to admit that they would then also say that one could never get it back again. Yet Jesus Himself said He will "never cast out" anyone who comes to Him for salvation. (John 6:37) - John MacArthur Study Bible

Remember, the Bible says it is the Father who draws people to Christ for salvation (John 6:44). If anyone has the desire to be saved, that very desire comes from the Father. Anyone who wishes to be saved, can be saved. Those who will not be saved, will have no desire to be saved.

[~candice~]

1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And God permitting, we will do so.

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseto their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Hebrews 6:1-9

Help me understand the bold print. Does this mean if I fall away I will go to hell?

Those verses refer to those contemporaries of Christ who witnessed His miracles, the healings, the deliverance from demons, as well as experiencing them, such as eating the food He miraculously created (John 6), and yet they still rejected Him with full knowledge and conscious experience. With full revelation they rejected the truth, concluding the opposite of the truth about Christ, and thus had no hope of being saved. They could never have more knowledge then they had when they rejected Him. They concluded that Jesus should be crucified and thus stood with His enemies.

There is no possibility of these verses referring to losing salvation. Many Scripture passages make it unmistakably clear that salvation is eternal (John 10:27-29; Romans 8:35, 38, 39; Philippians 1:6; 1 Peter 1:4-5). Those who want to make these verses mean that believers can lose salvation, will have to admit that they would then also say that one could never get it back again. Yet Jesus Himself said He will "never cast out" anyone who comes to Him for salvation. (John 6:37) - John MacArthur Study Bible

Remember, the Bible says it is the Father who draws people to Christ for salvation (John 6:44). If anyone has the desire to be saved, that very desire comes from the Father. Anyone who wishes to be saved, can be saved. Those who will not be saved, will have no desire to be saved.

I don't know that I agree, or at least, I think it requires clarification. Many people are drawn towards spiritual activities and are yet unsaved.

Matt 7

²¹"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. ²²Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' ²³Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

These people are saying "Lord Lord", they are prophesying in His name (they know His name!), drive out demons (this is more than just tarot card spirituality here) and performed miracles. I could guess that these people felt as if they were 'drawn to God', but were not saved.

Sis, you know the truth, and you know the Father. Continue to walk in Him even when things are tough, when things are tough, when you sin, when you feel up and when you feel down, when you "feel" spiritual and when you don't. Hang in there.

[Rick-Parker]

"Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also." 1 John 18-23.

[wyguy]

1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And God permitting, we will do so.

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseto their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Hebrews 6:1-9

Help me understand the bold print. Does this mean if I fall away I will go to hell?

Those verses refer to those contemporaries of Christ who witnessed His miracles, the healings, the deliverance from demons, as well as experiencing them, such as eating the food He miraculously created (John 6), and yet they still rejected Him with full knowledge and conscious experience. With full revelation they rejected the truth, concluding the opposite of the truth about Christ, and thus had no hope of being saved. They could never have more knowledge then they had when they rejected Him. They concluded that Jesus should be crucified and thus stood with His enemies.

There is no possibility of these verses referring to losing salvation. Many Scripture passages make it unmistakably clear that salvation is eternal (John 10:27-29; Romans 8:35, 38, 39; Philippians 1:6; 1 Peter 1:4-5). Those who want to make these verses mean that believers can lose salvation, will have to admit that they would then also say that one could never get it back again. Yet Jesus Himself said He will "never cast out" anyone who comes to Him for salvation. (John 6:37) - John MacArthur Study Bible

Remember, the Bible says it is the Father who draws people to Christ for salvation (John 6:44). If anyone has the desire to be saved, that very desire comes from the Father. Anyone who wishes to be saved, can be saved. Those who will not be saved, will have no desire to be saved.

I don't know that I agree, or at least, I think it requires clarification. Many people are drawn towards spiritual activities and are yet unsaved.

Matt 7

²¹"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. ²²Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' ²³Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

These people are saying "Lord Lord", they are prophesying in His name (they know His name!), drive out demons (this is more than just tarot card spirituality here) and performed miracles. I could guess that these people felt as if they were 'drawn to God', but were not saved.

Sis, you know the truth, and you know the Father. Continue to walk in Him even when things are tough, when things are tough, when you sin, when you feel up and when you feel down, when you "feel" spiritual and when you don't. Hang in there.

The Bible says the Father draws people to Christ, not to "spiritual activities."

And yes indeed, there will be many people who claimed that they were Christian, who did many things in Christ's name, but will still end up in hell, because they never actually repented and placed their faith in Christ alone for salvation. They are false converts that only had a "form of godliness, but denying the power thereof." (2 Timothy 3:5)

[~candice~]

1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And God permitting, we will do so.

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseto their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Hebrews 6:1-9

Help me understand the bold print. Does this mean if I fall away I will go to hell?

Those verses refer to those contemporaries of Christ who witnessed His miracles, the healings, the deliverance from demons, as well as experiencing them, such as eating the food He miraculously created (John 6), and yet they still rejected Him with full knowledge and conscious experience. With full revelation they rejected the truth, concluding the opposite of the truth about Christ, and thus had no hope of being saved. They could never have more knowledge then they had when they rejected Him. They concluded that Jesus should be crucified and thus stood with His enemies.

There is no possibility of these verses referring to losing salvation. Many Scripture passages make it unmistakably clear that salvation is eternal (John 10:27-29; Romans 8:35, 38, 39; Philippians 1:6; 1 Peter 1:4-5). Those who want to make these verses mean that believers can lose salvation, will have to admit that they would then also say that one could never get it back again. Yet Jesus Himself said He will "never cast out" anyone who comes to Him for salvation. (John 6:37) - John MacArthur Study Bible

Remember, the Bible says it is the Father who draws people to Christ for salvation (John 6:44). If anyone has the desire to be saved, that very desire comes from the Father. Anyone who wishes to be saved, can be saved. Those who will not be saved, will have no desire to be saved.

I don't know that I agree, or at least, I think it requires clarification. Many people are drawn towards spiritual activities and are yet unsaved.

Matt 7

²¹"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. ²²Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' ²³Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

These people are saying "Lord Lord", they are prophesying in His name (they know His name!), drive out demons (this is more than just tarot card spirituality here) and performed miracles. I could guess that these people felt as if they were 'drawn to God', but were not saved.

Sis, you know the truth, and you know the Father. Continue to walk in Him even when things are tough, when things are tough, when you sin, when you feel up and when you feel down, when you "feel" spiritual and when you don't. Hang in there.

The Bible says the Father draws people to Christ, not to "spiritual activities."

And yes indeed, there will be many people who claimed that they were Christian, who did many things in Christ's name, but will still end up in hell, because they never actually repented and placed their faith in Christ alone for salvation. They are false converts that only had a "form of godliness, but denying the power thereof." (2 Timothy 3:5)

Well that's the point I'm trying to drag out. Those people in Matt 7 likely would have thought they were drawn to God, but were deceived and played the works game. Not all who think they are drawn to God, actually are.

[Fez]

but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

This is the part of the scripture that is the important part of Matthew 7.

What is the will spoken about? "Love Me and Obey me"

I think it is pretty simple.

[yamsryummy]

1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And God permitting, we will do so.

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseto their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Hebrews 6:1-9

Help me understand the bold print. Does this mean if I fall away I will go to hell?

As long as we live and breathe there is still hope. God is a merciful God and willing to forgive. He has said in His word 'He that is faithful to repent his sin, I am faithful to forgive his sin." Do not lose hope. God loves you!

Edited October 1, 2010 by yamsryummy