Is Atheism a religion?

[Guest Aiwa]

Hello all,

I'm new here. I'm a 'nonbeliever' but I've read your rules & stuff so I'm hoping it's OK to post.

Johndavid;

I think you are totally correct.

It seems to me that people use labels in order to define themselves to others. When a friend represents themselves as 'christian' or I represent myself as an 'atheist', I make very few claims on my actual behavior. That is why, when you look at the entire group that happens to call themselves 'christian' or 'atheist' you will observe great disparities in their beliefs and types of behavior.

The point of the label 'atheist' is to express disagreement - essentially to express disagreement to the existence of a supernatural personality(s). So, the label only has utility in a theistic context. One can talk about what constitutes a 'religion', or the validity of evolution, etc - but someone who calls themselves an atheist need make no claims on these topics. (In the same way you can call yourself a christian without going to church or taking the sacrement or whatever.)

Your ideological position may be poorer if these happen to be your choices. (Someone who disagrees with divine creation SHOULD have an alternate theory of existence just as, perhaps, a Christian with no valid excuse to miss church or mass might be viewed as slightly hypocritical)

Atheism is just a label that people use to define a belief system that doesn't involve theism. Hence the dictionary defn.

[Guest]

..... I don't know why you insist that we really know God but we simply rebel against Him. That does not make sense and it is actually a hidden insult to our intelligence. If we really knew God, as the all powerful creator of the universe, it would be extremely stupid to rebel against him.....

Ah!

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. Isaiah 53:3-7

Yes

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20

Insult Is

Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? Isaiah 29:16

As Insult Does

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:15-17

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Could be, but in Christianity: "The people are forced to accept existence of Jesus in their hearts"....

Children

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. John 3:7

Love Their Daddy

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Romans 10:15

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Dead Men Walking

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

Or Children Rejoicing

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Galatians 4:6

And Without Any Doubt, The Choice Remains Yours

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Choose Wisely

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13

And Be Blessed Beloved

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Respectfully Yours

Love, Joe

And Jesus, moved with compassion, put forth his hand, and touched him, and saith unto him, I will; be thou clean. Mark 1:41

[nebula]

I was hoping you would respond to this, treesong.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am concerned about the millions of children who die of hunger and disease every year.

Plus the victims of catastrophic events and the pain in the animal world, etc.

The very fact that many animals need to kill in order to survive casts big doubts

on a benevolent design. That I could not understand and caused my irreversible de-conversion.

My pastor (or his catholic equivalent) told me that this was caused by original sin and the fall.

But that did not convince me anymore. I found that disproportionate and unjust, especially

for the animals (except maybe one) who did not and could not sin, and cannot even hope to

go back to heaven.

I was thinking about this a bit more - your whole reason for rejecting belief in God - and I realized something. Ebwly's post happens to follow a similar train of thought, apparently.

But this is what I observed:

You began thinking that if you were God, or if you were to describe what God should be like, life would be a certain way.

Since life is not "this" way, you concluded then that God does not exist.

IS this logical?

[Guest Aiwa]

Hello all,

Atheism is just a label that people use to define a belief system that doesn't involve theism. Hence the dictionary defn.

Hello Aiwa,

Welcome!

Do you really think atheism is a belief system? I don't see that at all. Atheism is simply the absence of belief in gods/God. Where's the system in that? Similarly theism is not a system of belief. All you can say about a theist is that they believe in gods or a god. You don't even know which ones. I would argue that neither atheism nor theism are systems of beliefs. They are only simple definitions explaining whether or not an individual accepts or rejects the existence of gods/God.

Whoa, I'm not saying atheism is a belief system. I said it was a label that people use to define their personal belief system - whatever that system happens to be. I entirely agree with your characterization - and it seems completely compatible with my own post.

Note, for example, that you said "They are only simple definitions explaining whether or not an individual accepts or rejects the existence of gods/God." while I said that

"The point of the label 'atheist' is to express disagreement - essentially to express disagreement to the existence of a supernatural personality(s)."

Edited October 31, 2010 by Aiwa

[Guest]

Welcome!

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.... The point of the label 'atheist' is to express disagreement - essentially to express disagreement to the existence of a supernatural personality(s....

The Point

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

Is To Knowingly

The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts. Psalms 10:4

Mock The LORD God Creator

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

Who Willingly Went To A Cross Of Shame

But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head saying,

He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. Psalms 22:6-8

To Full-Pay The Vile Sins Of All

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:5-6

That You Might Live

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. John 10:10

In Love

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Revelation 21:3-4

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Life Is Full Of Choices

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. Joshua 24:15

Choose Wisely

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Love, Joe

So Jesus had compassion on them, and touched their eyes: and immediately their eyes received sight, and they followed him. Matthew 20:34

[Guest Aiwa]

Hello again Fresno!

I have trouble deciding if you are agreeing or disagreeing with what is being discussed.

[Guest treesong]

You began thinking that if you were God, or if you were to describe what God should be like, life would be a certain way.

Since life is not "this" way, you concluded then that God does not exist.

IS this logical?

Of course not, this would be a non sequitur. This is not enough to deny His existence, but it is enough not to call Him

a loving Father. If we attach labels to entities, we should have a common understanding of the semantics of

the words we use.

I cannot imagine a loving Father who designs His creatures to eat each other in order to survive; if He

really exists then we need to revise the adjectives we need to describe Him.

[nebula]

You began thinking that if you were God, or if you were to describe what God should be like, life would be a certain way.

Since life is not "this" way, you concluded then that God does not exist.

IS this logical?

Of course not, this would be a non sequitur. This is not enough to deny His existence, but it is enough not to call Him

a loving Father. If we attach labels to entities, we should have a common understanding of the semantics of

the words we use.

I cannot imagine a loving Father who designs His creatures to eat each other in order to survive; if He

really exists then we need to revise the adjectives we need to describe Him.

So why did you jump to atheism?

[Guest treesong]

So why did you jump to atheism?

I thought, and still think, that it is the most simple solution to the problem of evil.

That was the start, the rest was kind of domino effect....

Once I did that step, I started rethinking about the foundations my belief was

based upon. I found an amazing emptiness; all the things, that for me were clear

signs of God existence, suddenly did not prove anything.

I still find it incredible that I could believe in God, at all.

[nebula]

I thought, and still think, that it is the most simple solution to the problem of evil.

That was the start, the rest was kind of domino effect....

Once I did that step, I started rethinking about the foundations my belief was

based upon. I found an amazing emptiness; all the things, that for me were clear

signs of God existence, suddenly did not prove anything.

I still find it incredible that I could believe in God, at all.

So that goes back to a question I asked you in your welcome post but you did not answer.

Were you ever taught to have a relationship with the Father? To pursue the Lord for love (rather than for a better afterlife)?