Atheism vs Antitheism

[UndecidedFrog]

You are on a Christian web site debating the existiance of god.

Am I? That is certainly news to me.

The fact that you are here debating the existiance shows you are trying to disprove his existiance.

Is it? Am I really debating anything? There is a large difference between discussion and debating. Why would I attempt to disprove what has not yet been proven? That is irrational.

Here you come in and "warn" another person we are speaking to to not take what we say at face value.

You are mistaken. I came in to inform a person how christians view truth as their god, so that he may fully understand the terms christians use as "submitting to truth". Am I incorrect that christians view truth as their god? Have I told a lie? If I have told the truth, the truth will stand, and there is no harm done.

That is interfering. I have had to move threads as you have also interfered. You have not answered why you are on a Christian site trying to disprove god. Either you have an agenda to disprove god as you believe that religion is the core problem of society (which I know you believe) or yor are afraid it's true and yor are trying to reassure yourself that it's not or you simply researching some form of paper. The point is this why are you so against the idea of God that you must seek out Christians to debate with?

This thread is posted in the Outer Court and open for comment by atheists. I comment on threads that interest me. I am very sorry that you view that as interfering. However, if I read the TOS correctly, I am acting well within what is allowed. Using your mod privileges, you are free to move threads into the inner court if you want to stop my "interference".

I have not answered why I am on a christian forum trying to disprove god, because I am not doing that. I am discussing with others my perspective on many different issues. However, you will find that I have never even remotely attempted to disprove any god. There is no need to disprove what has not been proven in the first place.

FYI, you are mistaken. I do not believe that religion is the core problem of society. Religion is certainly a contributing cause, but definitely not the core problem.

I am not against the idea or concept of god/s, and I do not debate anything, I discuss with those that wish to discuss. If you dislike discussions with me, simply do not reply to my posts. It is a very simple solution.

As for me I know without a shadow of a doubt that the god I serve is the one true God. I know this because of the message of the cross. The message of the cross is this. God so loved the world lost in a debt of sin it could never pay that he paid that debt by giving his son for us on the cross. He wants something that no other religion offers a personal relationship with the creator God of heaven. As for converting people we are to preach the word and answer questions and that is what I meant.

I do not doubt your belief in your god.

Well, if you don't write what you mean the first time around, is it any wonder why I misunderstand you? I take it that you do not mean that you convert people, and agree that only the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost can do that?

As for what you will tell god.... Well that is almost word for word what I have heard every atheist say. The issue is this you want god on your terms. He wants you on his.

Well, that is interesting to note, that other atheists feel similarly.

Perhaps you can explain to me why your god wants me to believe that he exists without sufficient credible evidence to convince me that he does? What does belief without sufficient credible evidence prove?

I submit to you that you are rejecting god not because you don't have proof but because there is something about the message of the cross you do not like. Something about the possibility of not being in control of your destiny. I cannot believe you simply disbelieve as one disbelieved in as you say "the flying spegetti monster" if that was the case you would not be here trying to convinces us otherwise.

LOL, I submit to you that you are mistaken on several fronts:

1) I do not like or dislike any message of the cross.

2) I am perfectly comfortable about the status of my destiny, and the relative level of control I have over it.

3) I am not here to convince anyone of anything.

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

[UndecidedFrog]

These responses here are adult versions of, "Na-nee, na-nee, boo-boo. Stick your head in doo-doo." (Stuff children do to make themselves feel more superior in their own eyes by belittling someone else.)

nebula,

If you want solid examples of arrogance and belittling of others, you should look at the postings directed at me that elicited my responses you quoted.

I would like to know your perspective on those. Please share.

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

Edited November 25, 2011 by UndecidedFrog

[nebula]

These responses here are adult versions of, "Na-nee, na-nee, boo-boo. Stick your head in doo-doo." (Stuff children do to make themselves feel more superior in their own eyes by belittling someone else.)

nebula,

If you want solid examples of arrogance and belittling of others, you should look at the postings directed at me that elicited my responses you quoted.

I would like to know your perspective on those. Please share.

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

The posts you responded to:

Are you going to answer my questions?

I fail to see any belittling or arrogance in this.

The rules you always tend make up whenever you need to manipulate the English language after your points have been successfully refuted and you cannot muster up the courage, integrity or the manhood to admit your mistakes.

5 or so pages were spent on your obsession on whether or not a question can be an assertion.

I have a question for you, UF - in the book of Acts when Paul prophesied to a sorcerer he's become blind, and the man became blind, or when Jesus called the pharisees whitewashed tombs, would you have said to them something like, "Thank you for being such a fine example of Christian behavior. "?

[UndecidedFrog]

The rules you always tend make up whenever you need to manipulate the English language after your points have been successfully refuted and you cannot muster up the courage, integrity or the manhood to admit your mistakes.

Nebula,

You fail to see any arrogance or belittling in the quote above? I think I am beginning to understand you now. Thanks for answering my question. I had hope that you would be fair, but I see I am mistaken.

I have a question for you, UF - in the book of Acts when Paul prophesied to a sorcerer he's become blind, and the man became blind, or when Jesus called the pharisees whitewashed tombs, would you have said to them something like, "Thank you for being such a fine example of Christian behavior. "?

LOL, what hypothetical situations you have found for me.

Acts 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.

13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him.

13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

If Paul called me child of the devil, enemy of all righteousness, servant of satan, citizen of the dark kingdom, etc. I would thank him for his opinion of me, and note it down in my database of christian behavior.

Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

I would ask Jesus why he thinks I am a hypocrit, and why he thinks dead men's bones and uncleanliness fill me. Well, OK, certain parts of me are unclean, but they are part of my digestive tract. If he does not answer, then I will thank him for his opinion of me, and note it down as well.

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

Edited November 25, 2011 by UndecidedFrog

[nebula]

Nebula,

You fail to see any arrogance or belittling in the quote above? I think I am beginning to understand you now.

Please explain.

Describe for me what you are understanding.

Thanks for answering my question. I had hope that you would be fair, but I see I am mistaken.

What I see is that you a slick at turning any unfavorable critique of your behavior as having dirt thrown on you, giving yourself the appearance of being the bright and shiny persecuted victim.

If Shiloh's words to you made you feel demeaned, then you must have a weak sense of character. I was called much worse things in my growing years. If being called "arrogant" puts you in self-defense mode, then how can you handle real rejection?

I have a question for you, UF - in the book of Acts when Paul prophesied to a sorcerer he's become blind, and the man became blind, or when Jesus called the pharisees whitewashed tombs, would you have said to them something like, "Thank you for being such a fine example of Christian behavior. "?

LOL, what hypothetical situations you have found for me.

More evidence that you are treating all of this as a game.

And you are out to win the game.

Acts 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.

13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him.

13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

If Paul called me child of the devil, enemy of all righteousness, servant of satan, citizen of the dark kingdom, etc. I would thank him for his opinion of me, and note it down in my database of christian behavior.

I didn't ask if Paul were to call you of such things.

As for Elymas, he was a sorcerer, not an atheist who thinks his reason and intellect are the most superior things in all existence.

but if you were Elymas in the story, it might be a little difficult for you to have written down your note after having just been made blind.

Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

I would ask Jesus why he thinks I am a hypocrit, and why he thinks dead men's bones and uncleanliness fill me. Well, OK, certain parts of me are unclean, but they are part of my digestive tract. If he does not answer, then I will thank him for his opinion of me, and note it down as well.

Except that Jesus did tell them why.

28 "So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

So I fail to see how your response applies?

[Guest]

.... If Paul called me child of the devil, enemy of all righteousness, servant of satan, citizen of the dark kingdom, etc. I would thank him for his opinion of me, and note it down in my database of christian behavior....

Dear Fellow I Would Like To Thank You

"We know that in all things God works for good with those who love him, those whom he has called according to his purpose.

Those whom God had already chosen he also set apart to become like his Son, so that the Son would be the first among many believers.

And so those whom God set apart, he called; and those he called, he put right with himself, and he shared his glory with them." Romans 8:28-30

For Expressing Your Joy In Collecting Vistas Of Christian Behavior

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12-13

And For Your Bravery In Sharing These Snippets

"God saved you through faith as an act of kindness. You had nothing to do with it. Being saved is a gift from God." Ephesians 2:8

With Those Who Love You

"He saved us and called us to be his own people, not because of what we have done, but because of his own purpose and grace. He gave us this grace by means of Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, " 2 Timothy 1:9

Bless You Beloved

Love, Joe

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Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

I would ask Jesus why he thinks I am a hypocrite, and why he thinks dead men's bones and uncleanliness fill me. Well, OK, certain parts of me are unclean, but they are part of my digestive tract. If he does not answer, then I will thank him for his opinion of me, and note it down as well.

Ah!

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. Deuteronomy 32:39-40

Beloved Jesus Shed His Holy Blood

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

So He Can Clean You Up

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Isaiah 1:18

Should You Desire

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:15

Fellowship

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20

Listen

Love, Joe

[UndecidedFrog]

Dear Fellow I Would Like To Thank You

For Expressing Your Joy In Collecting Vistas Of Christian Behavior

And For Your Bravery In Sharing These Snippets

With Those Who Love You

Dear Joe,

You are very welcome.

BTW, it takes no bravery to share with those who love me.

It take bravery to share with those who don't love me, as apparent from their behavior.

Ah!

Beloved Jesus Shed His Holy Blood

So He Can Clean You Up

Should You Desire

Fellowship

Listen

I do not want anyone to shed any blood to clean me up. The idea grosses me out. It reminds me of the animal sacrifices of certain religions.

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

[UndecidedFrog]

Please explain.

Describe for me what you are understanding.

Nebula,

OK, I can do that:

Let us take shiloh357's quote: "The rules you always tend make up whenever you need to manipulate the English language after your points have been successfully refuted and you cannot muster up the courage, integrity or the manhood to admit your mistakes."

From that, I understand the following:

1) He claims that I have made up rules

2) He claims that I manipulate the English language

3) He claims my points have been successfully refuted

4) He claims I cannot muster up courage

5) He claims I cannot muster up integrity

6) He claims I cannot muster up the manhood to admit my alleged mistakes

Have I got my understanding correct?

What I see is that you a slick at turning any unfavorable critique of your behavior as having dirt thrown on you, giving yourself the appearance of being the bright and shiny persecuted victim.

I guess you do not have the same understanding as I have from the above.

Thank you for your answer and your explanation. It is useful for me to understand your perspective.

You do not consider any of the above 6 points as "dirt thrown" at me.

This is very illuminating.

If Shiloh's words to you made you feel demeaned, then you must have a weak sense of character. I was called much worse things in my growing years. If being called "arrogant" puts you in self-defense mode, then how can you handle real rejection?

Thank you for sharing your opinion of my weak character. Certainly, if you do not consider the above 6 points as any dirt thrown at me, any claims of my weak character is not additional dirt. LOL.

I think I will know where to categorize your perspective.

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

I do not want anyone to shed any blood to clean me up. The idea grosses me out. It reminds me of the animal sacrifices of certain religions.

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

You're worried Jesus' blood, spilled two thousand years ago, is going to gross you out?

You do understand that we don't wash in His physical blood, right? Your squeamishness is notably disproportionate considering the spiritualized nature of the blood in question.

And it's supposed to remind you of those animal sacrifices, because the punishment for sin is death, which is the spilling of blood because the life is in the blood. Hebrews talks about Jesus' sacrifice was the end to all sacrifices. What He did is the reason such gross things that can't possibly atone for sin are done away with.

I find it interesting that since Christ's crucifixion the world seems to have realized this. Animal sacrifices have largely stopped, when it used to be practiced by pretty much every culture.

But if the consequences of sin are death, and the gift of God is eternal life through the vicarious death of His Son on the cross where He spilled His blood for you, I'm not overly sympathetic to your position of rejecting the gift over hyper-squeamishness.

If I died for someone and they complained that I couldn't help that in saving them they were spashed with some of my blood, I’d be unimpressed with the ingratitude.

[nebula]

Let us take shiloh357's quote: "The rules you always tend make up whenever you need to manipulate the English language after your points have been successfully refuted and you cannot muster up the courage, integrity or the manhood to admit your mistakes."

From that, I understand the following:

1) He claims that I have made up rules

2) He claims that I manipulate the English language

3) He claims my points have been successfully refuted

4) He claims I cannot muster up courage

5) He claims I cannot muster up integrity

6) He claims I cannot muster up the manhood to admit my alleged mistakes

Have I got my understanding correct?

He is pointing out the way he perceives you to play debate tactic games to gain the upper hand while by-passing the heart of the issue originally presented.

5 pages debating the question-assertion issue are evidence of this.

Thank you for sharing your opinion of my weak character. Certainly, if you do not consider the above 6 points as any dirt thrown at me, any claims of my weak character is not additional dirt. LOL.

I think I will know where to categorize your perspective.

Either you have super-slick defense mechanisms for assertions that shouldn't produce any more of a sting than getting whipped with a wet noodle, or this is all a game to you and this method of retaliation is your trump card for coming out superior while avoiding the issues in question.

So which is it?