UndecidedFrog Posted July 25, 2011 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 If I were a person that was working in one of these places, I do believe I would choose not to give a pair of homosexual people the papers to adopted any child, I would also be prepared to either quit or go to Jail for not following a State Order. I am saddenned to hear that. I believe there are many homosexual couples of good moral character that have plenty of love to shower on a child in need of that love. I am saddenned that if you were in power to deny them that opportunity, you would, solely based on their being homosexuals. Regards, UF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted July 25, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2011 There are some secular reasons for denying adoption to homosexual couples. Statistically their relationships are shorter and the incidences of domestic abuse are much higher. Doesn't sound like a stable home / family life to me, even if you define family in a way other than "mum, dad the kids". I find some of the current adoption rules bizarre and unfair. My husband and I aren't eligible to adopt because we have secondary infertility, rules state you must have primary infertility. And while this doesn't make one ineligible,those who have been treated for depression are approved at much lower rates. There just aren't that many children to adopt here and they are very very picky about who gets to adopt domestically. Internationally the rules are different but quite a few have a stipulation that the couple must be christians and have a letter of recommendation from their pastor, how do you feel about that? When it boils down to it, adoption is a privilege, not a right. No one has a "right" to adopt that is being violated because they are gay... otherwise, why are my "rights" being denied on other bases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldShep Posted July 26, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 934 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 137 Days Won: 6 Joined: 07/20/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/12/1950 Share Posted July 26, 2011 If I were a person that was working in one of these places, I do believe I would choose not to give a pair of homosexual people the papers to adopted any child, I would also be prepared to either quit or go to Jail for not following a State Order. I am saddenned to hear that. I believe there are many homosexual couples of good moral character that have plenty of love to shower on a child in need of that love. I am saddenned that if you were in power to deny them that opportunity, you would, solely based on their being homosexuals. Regards, UF "if you were in power to deny them that opportunity, you would" I deny no one! However, I would have no part in the issuing of those papers, base on my personal principals and the things I have seen in life, which are many, one of which lead to the death of the child in a Gay household. " I believe there are many homosexual couples of good moral character that have plenty of love to shower on a child in need of that love." No doubt there are, but that doesn't mean I should abandon my personal principals. So my answer would be NO! nothing more needs to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted July 26, 2011 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 26, 2011 I deny no one! However, I would have no part in the issuing of those papers, base on my personal principals and the things I have seen in life, which are many, one of which lead to the death of the child in a Gay household. That's like deciding not to fill a prescription for the morning after pill, and saying you are not denying it to a patient who presented a prescription for it. The fact is that you are indeed denying it, when you are in a position (your job) to fulfill it. " I believe there are many homosexual couples of good moral character that have plenty of love to shower on a child in need of that love." No doubt there are, but that doesn't mean I should abandon my personal principals. So my answer would be NO! nothing more needs to be said. You don't see how you are imposing your personal principals on others. Regards, UF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted July 26, 2011 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 26, 2011 There are some secular reasons for denying adoption to homosexual couples. Statistically their relationships are shorter and the incidences of domestic abuse are much higher. Doesn't sound like a stable home / family life to me, even if you define family in a way other than "mum, dad the kids". This is news to me. Can you please provide the references to these studies? Shorter relationships, higher incidence of domestic abuse compared to .....hetero relationships, I presume? There just aren't that many children to adopt here and they are very very picky about who gets to adopt domestically. Internationally the rules are different but quite a few have a stipulation that the couple must be christians and have a letter of recommendation from their pastor, how do you feel about that? For healthy newborns, I agree. There aren't many available for adoption. However, for the rest (non-healthy, older kids, etc.), I bet there is a long list of available kids for adoption. Internationally, only christian adoption agencies require the adopting family to be christian. I highly doubt that a muslim adoption agency would require the adopting family be christian. We understand how human nature works, and are not surprised by the parochial attitudes some have, that they put ahead of the best interests of the child. When it boils down to it, adoption is a privilege, not a right. No one has a "right" to adopt that is being violated because they are gay... otherwise, why are my "rights" being denied on other bases? Yes, it is a privilege, like driving. However, when we deny the privilege to a certain select population based on their race, creed, religion, sexual orientation, vietnam veteran status, disability, etc. we are in the territory of bigotry. Incidentally, what rights do you believe are being denied to you? Regards, UF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted July 26, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 26, 2011 There are some secular reasons for denying adoption to homosexual couples. Statistically their relationships are shorter and the incidences of domestic abuse are much higher. Doesn't sound like a stable home / family life to me, even if you define family in a way other than "mum, dad the kids". This is news to me. Can you please provide the references to these studies? Shorter relationships, higher incidence of domestic abuse compared to .....hetero relationships, I presume? Here you go There just aren't that many children to adopt here and they are very very picky about who gets to adopt domestically. Internationally the rules are different but quite a few have a stipulation that the couple must be christians and have a letter of recommendation from their pastor, how do you feel about that? For healthy newborns, I agree. There aren't many available for adoption. However, for the rest (non-healthy, older kids, etc.), I bet there is a long list of available kids for adoption. Internationally, only christian adoption agencies require the adopting family to be christian. I highly doubt that a muslim adoption agency would require the adopting family be christian. We understand how human nature works, and are not surprised by the parochial attitudes some have, that they put ahead of the best interests of the child. When it boils down to it, adoption is a privilege, not a right. No one has a "right" to adopt that is being violated because they are gay... otherwise, why are my "rights" being denied on other bases? Yes, it is a privilege, like driving. However, when we deny the privilege to a certain select population based on their race, creed, religion, sexual orientation, vietnam veteran status, disability, etc. we are in the territory of bigotry. Incidentally, what rights do you believe are being denied to you? Regards, UF Well, driving is something most people can do, there is no "competition" to only let a handful of people on the roads. Adoption is not so. There are a small number of infants and children to adopt and they need to go to the best possible healthy environment. It is highly competitive. If you read the link I gave you above, you will see this is not a homosexual relationship, based on averages alone. You may label this parochial if you will... As for your last question (I didn't say a right was being denied to me, btw), domestic in Australia is limited to couples with primary infertility who have not been treated for any mental illnesses, such as depression. You also may not apply until 12 months have passed from your last fertility treatment. Rules me out on all three counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted July 27, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2011 Bumpity bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted July 28, 2011 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Here you go Sorry it took some time to get back to you on this, but I was looking into the references in that site above you provided from conservapedia. None of the studies (from the non-dead-end links) that I have seen are comparative studies. They do not compare the rate of violence in homosexual relationships with similar hetero relationships. All they do, if we are to believe them, is show that there is indeed some violence associated with homosexual relationships, without showing the cause of such violence as stemming from homosexuality. Studies like these are flawed because the protocol they use to survey people are not controlled by using the same protocol on non-homosexual relationships (the defacto control). Some of these studies also include emotional abuse/trauma as part of the positive response. From my observations, emotional trauma/abuse is a subjective experience, and depending on which party you ask, it will be there or it won't be there. This type of inclusion could throw off the results. Well, driving is something most people can do, there is no "competition" to only let a handful of people on the roads. Adoption is not so. There are a small number of infants and children to adopt and they need to go to the best possible healthy environment. It is highly competitive. If you read the link I gave you above, you will see this is not a homosexual relationship, based on averages alone. You may label this parochial if you will... As I said previously, such competition for HEALTHY NEWBORNS I do not deny. However, we all know that this competition does not exist at all for NON-healthy newborns (e.g. crack babies), and NON-newborns. So, where do these children go? Into the foster care system where they linger. If such competition were there, the foster care system would be nothing more than a clearing house. Objective evidence shows that this is not so. Regards, UF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted July 28, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 28, 2011 UF, I will do my best to find you some peer reviewed, comparative research . But before I do so, can you agree that if I find evidence of higher rates of incidence of abuse in homosexual relationships compared to heterosexual relationships, then the best interest of the child would be preferential placement in heterosexual relationships? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndecidedFrog Posted July 28, 2011 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,063 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/02/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 UF, I will do my best to find you some peer reviewed, comparative research . But before I do so, can you agree that if I find evidence of higher rates of incidence of abuse in homosexual relationships compared to heterosexual relationships, then the best interest of the child would be preferential placement in heterosexual relationships? Hi Candice, Thank you for your efforts. No, I cannot agree to formulating policy on such research, even if it exists. I think adoption policy should be on a case by case basis, and examine (for the best interest of the child) the homelife any (hetero or homosexual) couple can provide. I am unwilling to deny adoption privileges to a loving homosexual couple, if that couple rates better (all other things equal) than a hetero couple. If you can show me that black couples have more associated violence in their relationships than white couples, would you ask me to agree to formulate adoption policy to favor white couples? I hope not. Regards, UF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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