Guest man Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 So in conclusion I'm sorry but I'll have to respectfully disagree with how this verse 11 was used to say that Jesus called money unrighteousness brother. God bless, GE Hi Jon, I am more than happy to read and understand your position as well as respectfully disagree with your assessment. I take the position I do based upon love. The need for money in a fallen world stems from the lack of love in the creatures therein. What makes one person worthy of more than another? Do they somehow posses something they did not first receive from God? For what purpose does God give talents and abilities to people? Do you for see money in heaven? Why or why not? Do we not pray for the kingdom of heaven to come to earth that Gods will be done here also? Why is money necessary? Please understand Jon, I believe that one can use money in a godly way but my position is that money itself is evil as Jesus said because one must choose whether to serve it or God. To serve money is to have respect for its power in the world without respect to God's. To serve God is to have no respect for the power of money. Most people serve mammon, therefore it motivates them instead of love and a certain amount is absolutely required of them before they will employ the God given time and talents they have. Please don't misunderstand what I am saying Jon. We live in an evil world and evil is necessary to judge an evil world. Sad but true. Come Lord Jesus. Agree to disagree. How do you take something that's evil and use it in a Godly way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 21, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,192 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 21, 2013 So in conclusion I'm sorry but I'll have to respectfully disagree with how this verse 11 was used to say that Jesus called money unrighteousness brother. God bless, GE Hi Jon, I am more than happy to read and understand your position as well as respectfully disagree with your assessment. I take the position I do based upon love. The need for money in a fallen world stems from the lack of love in the creatures therein. What makes one person worthy of more than another? Do they somehow posses something they did not first receive from God? For what purpose does God give talents and abilities to people? Do you for see money in heaven? Why or why not? Do we not pray for the kingdom of heaven to come to earth that Gods will be done here also? Why is money necessary? Please understand Jon, I believe that one can use money in a godly way but my position is that money itself is evil as Jesus said because one must choose whether to serve it or God. To serve money is to have respect for its power in the world without respect to God's. To serve God is to have no respect for the power of money. Most people serve mammon, therefore it motivates them instead of love and a certain amount is absolutely required of them before they will employ the God given time and talents they have. Please don't misunderstand what I am saying Jon. We live in an evil world and evil is necessary to judge an evil world. Sad but true. Come Lord Jesus. Agree to disagree. How do you take something that's evil and use it in a Godly way? Just like The Lord did... 1 Ki 22:21-23 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, and said, 'I will persuade him.' 22 The Lord said to him, 'In what way?' So he said, 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And the Lord said, 'You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.' NKJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted May 21, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted May 21, 2013 So in conclusion I'm sorry but I'll have to respectfully disagree with how this verse 11 was used to say that Jesus called money unrighteousness brother. God bless, GE Hi Jon, I am more than happy to read and understand your position as well as respectfully disagree with your assessment. I take the position I do based upon love. The need for money in a fallen world stems from the lack of love in the creatures therein. What makes one person worthy of more than another? Do they somehow posses something they did not first receive from God? For what purpose does God give talents and abilities to people? Do you for see money in heaven? Why or why not? Do we not pray for the kingdom of heaven to come to earth that Gods will be done here also? Why is money necessary? Please understand Jon, I believe that one can use money in a godly way but my position is that money itself is evil as Jesus said because one must choose whether to serve it or God. To serve money is to have respect for its power in the world without respect to God's. To serve God is to have no respect for the power of money. Most people serve mammon, therefore it motivates them instead of love and a certain amount is absolutely required of them before they will employ the God given time and talents they have. Please don't misunderstand what I am saying Jon. We live in an evil world and evil is necessary to judge an evil world. Sad but true. Come Lord Jesus. Agree to disagree. How do you take something that's evil and use it in a Godly way? Just like The Lord did... 1 Ki 22:21-23 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, and said, 'I will persuade him.' 22 The Lord said to him, 'In what way?' So he said, 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And the Lord said, 'You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.' NKJV bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted May 21, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2013 So in conclusion I'm sorry but I'll have to respectfully disagree with how this verse 11 was used to say that Jesus called money unrighteousness brother. God bless, GE Hi Jon, I am more than happy to read and understand your position as well as respectfully disagree with your assessment. I take the position I do based upon love. The need for money in a fallen world stems from the lack of love in the creatures therein. What makes one person worthy of more than another? Do they somehow posses something they did not first receive from God? For what purpose does God give talents and abilities to people? Do you for see money in heaven? Why or why not? Do we not pray for the kingdom of heaven to come to earth that Gods will be done here also? Why is money necessary? Please understand Jon, I believe that one can use money in a godly way but my position is that money itself is evil as Jesus said because one must choose whether to serve it or God. To serve money is to have respect for its power in the world without respect to God's. To serve God is to have no respect for the power of money. Most people serve mammon, therefore it motivates them instead of love and a certain amount is absolutely required of them before they will employ the God given time and talents they have. Please don't misunderstand what I am saying Jon. We live in an evil world and evil is necessary to judge an evil world. Sad but true. Come Lord Jesus. Agree to disagree. How do you take something that's evil and use it in a Godly way? Just like The Lord did... 1 Ki 22:21-23 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, and said, 'I will persuade him.' 22 The Lord said to him, 'In what way?' So he said, 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And the Lord said, 'You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.' NKJV In context this passage has nothing to do with money or sinning on a regular basis (assuming from this post by Gary that money is itself evil). In fact it is taken out of context to try to say something the passage clearly doesn't say. Verses 19 and 20 are somewhat essential to understanding verses 21-22. The passage does however in fact have to do with one who speaks through the direction of God (Micaiah) and the ones who spoke lies (the other prophets). God's Holy Spriit didn't live inside these false prophets. The difference is in this case we all who Believe have God's Holy Spirit indwelling us do we not? 1 Kings 22:13-28 Micaiah Prophesies Against Ahab 13 And the messenger who went to summon Micaiah said to him, “Behold, the words of the prophets with one accord are favorable to the king. Let your word be like the word of one of them, and speak favorably.” 14 But Micaiah said, “As the Lord lives, what the Lord says to me, that I will speak.” 15 And when he had come to the king, the king said to him, “Micaiah, shall we go to Ramoth-gilead to battle, or shall we refrain?” And he answered him, “Go up and triumph; the Lord will give it into the hand of the king.” 16 But the king said to him, “How many times shall I make you swear that you speak to me nothing but the truth in the name of the Lord?” 17 And he said, “I saw all Israel scattered on the mountains, as sheep that have no shepherd. And the Lord said, ‘These have no master; let each return to his home in peace.’” 18 And the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, “Did I not tell you that he would not prophesy good concerning me, but evil?” 19 And Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand and on his left; 20 and the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said one thing, and another said another. 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ 22 And the Lord said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ 23 Now therefore behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the Lord has declared disaster for you.” 24 Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near and struck Micaiah on the cheek and said, “How did the Spirit of the Lord go from me to speak to you?” 25 And Micaiah said, “Behold, you shall see on that day when you go into an inner chamber to hide yourself.” 26 And the king of Israel said, “Seize Micaiah, and take him back to Amon the governor of the city and to Joash the king's son, 27 and say, ‘Thus says the king, “Put this fellow in prison and feed him meager rations of bread and water, until I come in peace.”’” 28 And Micaiah said, “If you return in peace, the Lord has not spoken by me.” And he said, “Hear, all you peoples!” It's interesting to note that Ahab was killed in battle as Micaiah predicted. Zedekiah turned out to be a false prophet... So let's try again please. Where does the Bible say that money is evil. I understand the love of money to be evil. I understanding serving money to be evil... But where does the Bible in context state that money is itself evil? God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 So in conclusion I'm sorry but I'll have to respectfully disagree with how this verse 11 was used to say that Jesus called money unrighteousness brother. God bless, GE Hi Jon, I am more than happy to read and understand your position as well as respectfully disagree with your assessment. I take the position I do based upon love. The need for money in a fallen world stems from the lack of love in the creatures therein. What makes one person worthy of more than another? Do they somehow posses something they did not first receive from God? For what purpose does God give talents and abilities to people? Do you for see money in heaven? Why or why not? Do we not pray for the kingdom of heaven to come to earth that Gods will be done here also? Why is money necessary? Please understand Jon, I believe that one can use money in a godly way but my position is that money itself is evil as Jesus said because one must choose whether to serve it or God. To serve money is to have respect for its power in the world without respect to God's. To serve God is to have no respect for the power of money. Most people serve mammon, therefore it motivates them instead of love and a certain amount is absolutely required of them before they will employ the God given time and talents they have. Please don't misunderstand what I am saying Jon. We live in an evil world and evil is necessary to judge an evil world. Sad but true. Come Lord Jesus. Agree to disagree. How do you take something that's evil and use it in a Godly way? Just like The Lord did... 1 Ki 22:21-23 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, and said, 'I will persuade him.' 22 The Lord said to him, 'In what way?' So he said, 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And the Lord said, 'You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.' NKJV bingo The Lord using a lying spirit for one specific event is hardly the same as the Lord commanding his children to sin on a daily basis. The bible states that if we willfully sin, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin. But if it is as you say, then it's to be assumed that the Lord would grant us forgiveness for those sins, which would make the prior statement null and void. The statement that God tempts no one would also become null and void. While not everyone is tempted by money, there are those who are weak in the flesh. Commanding someone to partake in that which is evil would be tempting those individuals. The Word also states we are not to tempt the Lord. Willful participation in something that is evil and then turning around and asking forgiveness would be tempting the Lord. But if the Lord commands us to partake of that evil, it can be assumed that He would overlook those transgressions...................right? It is stated that there is no partiality with God. But if God allows for sin in one area and does not in another, isn't He showing partiality? Wouldn't He be showing favoritism to those who willfully sin in His name? A house divided cannot stand. Preaching righteousness in one hand and commanding us to participate in evil in the other, is a house divided. If it is as you say and money is in fact evil, then much of what the Lord stated becomes null and void. We are commanded to pay our taxes. From what I understand, money is the only allowable commodity for that transaction. If money is evil, as you say, then the Lord is commanding us to partake in that evil. If it is your belief that the Lord makes allowances for sinful behavior, you need to show where this is taught in the Word. By itself, money can do nothing. It's an inanimate object. To say it is evil is saying it has a life of it's own and has the ability to influence. While it's true that money does have influence, that influence begins in the heart of the user. That evil you speak of is a lust of the flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 21, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,192 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 21, 2013 So let's try again please. Where does the Bible say that money is evil. I understand the love of money to be evil. I understanding serving money to be evil... But where does the Bible in context state that money is itself evil? God bless, GE You've been shown and given examples in Scipture and in the creative element ... you just refuse to see it! God Bless, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 21, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,192 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 21, 2013 So in conclusion I'm sorry but I'll have to respectfully disagree with how this verse 11 was used to say that Jesus called money unrighteousness brother. God bless, GE Hi Jon, I am more than happy to read and understand your position as well as respectfully disagree with your assessment. I take the position I do based upon love. The need for money in a fallen world stems from the lack of love in the creatures therein. What makes one person worthy of more than another? Do they somehow posses something they did not first receive from God? For what purpose does God give talents and abilities to people? Do you for see money in heaven? Why or why not? Do we not pray for the kingdom of heaven to come to earth that Gods will be done here also? Why is money necessary? Please understand Jon, I believe that one can use money in a godly way but my position is that money itself is evil as Jesus said because one must choose whether to serve it or God. To serve money is to have respect for its power in the world without respect to God's. To serve God is to have no respect for the power of money. Most people serve mammon, therefore it motivates them instead of love and a certain amount is absolutely required of them before they will employ the God given time and talents they have. Please don't misunderstand what I am saying Jon. We live in an evil world and evil is necessary to judge an evil world. Sad but true. Come Lord Jesus. Agree to disagree. How do you take something that's evil and use it in a Godly way? Just like The Lord did... 1 Ki 22:21-23 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, and said, 'I will persuade him.' 22 The Lord said to him, 'In what way?' So he said, 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And the Lord said, 'You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.' NKJV bingo The Lord using a lying spirit for one specific event is hardly the same as the Lord commanding his children to sin on a daily basis. The bible states that if we willfully sin, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin. But if it is as you say, then it's to be assumed that the Lord would grant us forgiveness for those sins, which would make the prior statement null and void. The statement that God tempts no one would also become null and void. While not everyone is tempted by money, there are those who are weak in the flesh. Commanding someone to partake in that which is evil would be tempting those individuals. The Word also states we are not to tempt the Lord. Willful participation in something that is evil and then turning around and asking forgiveness would be tempting the Lord. But if the Lord commands us to partake of that evil, it can be assumed that He would overlook those transgressions...................right? It is stated that there is no partiality with God. But if God allows for sin in one area and does not in another, isn't He showing partiality? Wouldn't He be showing favoritism to those who willfully sin in His name? A house divided cannot stand. Preaching righteousness in one hand and commanding us to participate in evil in the other, is a house divided. If it is as you say and money is in fact evil, then much of what the Lord stated becomes null and void. We are commanded to pay our taxes. From what I understand, money is the only allowable commodity for that transaction. If money is evil, as you say, then the Lord is commanding us to partake in that evil. If it is your belief that the Lord makes allowances for sinful behavior, you need to show where this is taught in the Word. By itself, money can do nothing. It's an inanimate object. To say it is evil is saying it has a life of it's own and has the ability to influence. While it's true that money does have influence, that influence begins in the heart of the user. That evil you speak of is a lust of the flesh. See my post to eagle... God Bless, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted May 21, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2013 So let's try again please. Where does the Bible say that money is evil. I understand the love of money to be evil. I understanding serving money to be evil... But where does the Bible in context state that money is itself evil? God bless, GE You've been shown and given examples in Scipture and in the creative element ... you just refuse to see it! God Bless, Steven Steven, what I've seen IMO is Scripture being taken out of context. Let's do it more concisely because it seems I didn't address all the Scriptures you presented and you didn't address all the Scriptures I presented. Would you like to go first with the first passage? I propose we won't move on until each passage is addressed and either is determined to support or not support the idea that money is evil. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 21, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,192 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 21, 2013 So let's try again please. Where does the Bible say that money is evil. I understand the love of money to be evil. I understanding serving money to be evil... But where does the Bible in context state that money is itself evil? God bless, GE You've been shown and given examples in Scipture and in the creative element ... you just refuse to see it! God Bless, Steven Steven, what I've seen IMO is Scripture being taken out of context. Let's do it more concisely because it seems I didn't address all the Scriptures you presented and you didn't address all the Scriptures I presented. Would you like to go first with the first passage? I propose we won't move on until each passage is addressed and either is determined to support or not support the idea that money is evil. God bless, GE Okay... let's begin with the origins of money! Is it of God or this world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted May 21, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted May 21, 2013 The 'eyes' of the understanding sure have made things interesting over the years. So many ways to see things different from one another. Man is evil. Are we now not allowed to use men for anything? Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? It is amazing what people come up with. And I am certain that people are equally amazed at me. LOL. Now since Jesus said that Peter and the gang were evil, I suppose God cannot use them for good either? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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