Does THIS Doctrine line up with God's Words?

[Isaiah 6:8]

Please can you respond to this? You just took several scriptures out of context. Be careful with that as Satan has quoted scripture, but out of context. Just quoting scripture does not make one right.

Okay this is turning into yet another Catholic doctrine thread. This is going to stop, now, or I will shut down the thread. No questions asked, and I do not care who started it. I saw this coming as I saw the direction Chesterton was going already with the catholic doctrine of salvation by works and faith, not faith alone.

In answer to the OSAS question in the original OP I think the parable of the Sower explains it and unless I have missed it explains everything.

Luke 8(NKJV)

The Parable of the Sower

4 And when a great multitude had gathered, and they had come to Him from every city, He spoke by a parable: 5 “A sower went out to sow his seed. And as he sowed, some fell by the wayside; and it was trampled down, and the birds of the air devoured it. 6 Some fell on rock; and as soon as it sprang up, it withered away because it lacked moisture. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up with it and choked it. 8 But others fell on good ground, sprang up, and yielded a crop a hundredfold.” When He had said these things He cried, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

The Purpose of Parables

9 Then His disciples asked Him, saying, “What does this parable mean?”

10 And He said, “To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that

‘ Seeing they may not see,

And hearing they may not understand.’

The Parable of the Sower Explained

11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

So its about letting the Seed of the word of God grow and prudence fruit. All a person has to do is hold on to it and let it grow. Holding on by the strictest definition is a work but in this sense it is the difference of keeping a gift or throwing it away, or allowing it to be stolen. So can you lose your salvation? Well according to this yes, it can be stolen or choked out. You can choose not to let it grow.

Now if you hold on and let it bear fruit then you are saved. Again we do not work for salvation. We are given it. We can give it up. We can lost it by letting the world crowd it out. We do need to work out the salvation by fighting off thieves, and holding tight to it. So in that respect we do work and work out our salvation. For faith with out works is dead. However, its not the works that saves us, its the faith.

You see, Jesus says its being born of the spirit that saves us. So look at it this way. No one can work to be born. We are given life. It is up to us to keep it. We need to feed ourselves, and grow and learn, and protect ourselves. But yet it is no work of ours that makes us be born. There is no way for us to "Work" our way to life. Until we are born of the spirit we cannot live, we can not be saved and we can not be changed into a new creature. Once we are given the gift of salvation we are then Born.

Just like any child that is Born of the flesh, a person born of the spirit can lose that life. However that life is in and of itself is a gift. No one is saved by works. They are saved by grace through faith. They need to then work to keep their faith alive. People seem to be confused thinking that they have to work to become alive. This is simply not possible, nor is is biblical.

To make it fit with the Word you must do violence to it and take things out of context and ignore the rest of the chapter and book in which each verse is taken, not to mention the rest of the Bible.

This verse sums it up.

Ephesians 2

By Grace Through Faith

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We were dead, he made us alive, we can not work our way to alive from dead. That is impossible. You can work yourselves to death however, that is possible.

[Isaiah 6:8]

Also what Eccl and Chesterton refuse to do is follow these two simple Bible study rules. Doing so would likely change there whole life.

[~candice~]

That's not the correct interpretation of the parable of the sower . Since when does the plant/seed 'choose' or 'hang on'?

So its about letting the Seed of the word of God grow and prudence fruit. All a person has to do is hold on to it and let it grow. Holding on by the strictest definition is a work but in this sense it is the difference of keeping a gift or throwing it away, or allowing it to be stolen. So can you lose your salvation? Well according to this yes, it can be stolen or choked out. You can choose not to let it grow.

Holding on implies something by our own strength.

How does this square with Jude?

²⁴ Now to Him who is able to keep you^[f] from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

[Isaiah 6:8]

That's not the correct interpretation of the parable of the sower . Since when does the plant/seed 'choose' or 'hang on'?

So its about letting the Seed of the word of God grow and prudence fruit. All a person has to do is hold on to it and let it grow. Holding on by the strictest definition is a work but in this sense it is the difference of keeping a gift or throwing it away, or allowing it to be stolen. So can you lose your salvation? Well according to this yes, it can be stolen or choked out. You can choose not to let it grow.

Holding on implies something by our own strength.

How does this square with Jude?

²⁴ Now to Him who is able to keep you^[f] from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

He else to you keep it? In other words, perhaps better is to allow it to grow, allow HIM to do the good work and not allow other things to choke it out. So how else to you keep something, unless you hold on?

[Eccl12v13]

Also what Eccl and Chesterton refuse to do is follow these two simple Bible study rules. Doing so would likely change there whole life.

Let's now read how God tells us to study His word;

Isa.28

[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Topic with topic. Line upon line. Searching the scriptures here and there.

Luke 4

[4] And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Using EVERY WORD of God. That means, Gen. to Rev.

Acts 24

[14] But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Doing as Paul, and believing ALL THINGS written in the law and the prophets, Old AND New Testaments.

2 Tim.3

[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Knowing that the same scriptures that we read in the OT are able to give salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

1 Thes.5

[21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Proving all things.

2 Tim.4

[5] But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Make FULL proof of thy ministry

2 Tim.3

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

And finally using ALL of the inspired words of God for ALL of our doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction.

.

[Isaiah 6:8]

That's not the correct interpretation of the parable of the sower . Since when does the plant/seed 'choose' or 'hang on'?

So its about letting the Seed of the word of God grow and prudence fruit. All a person has to do is hold on to it and let it grow. Holding on by the strictest definition is a work but in this sense it is the difference of keeping a gift or throwing it away, or allowing it to be stolen. So can you lose your salvation? Well according to this yes, it can be stolen or choked out. You can choose not to let it grow.

Holding on implies something by our own strength.

How does this square with Jude?

²⁴ Now to Him who is able to keep you^[f] from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

He else to you keep it? In other words, perhaps better is to allow it to grow, allow HIM to do the good work and not allow other things to choke it out. So how else to you keep something, unless you hold on?

Oh and the plant/seed does not hold on. We hold on to it.

[Isaiah 6:8]

Also what Eccl and Chesterton refuse to do is follow these two simple Bible study rules. Doing so would likely change there whole life.

Let's now read how God tells us to study His word;

Isa.28

[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Topic with topic. Line upon line. Searching the scriptures here and there.

Luke 4

[4] And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Using EVERY WORD of God. That means, Gen. to Rev.

Acts 24

[14] But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Doing as Paul, and believing ALL THINGS written in the law and the prophets, Old AND New Testaments.

2 Tim.3

[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Knowing that the same scriptures that we read in the OT are able to give salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

1 Thes.5

[21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Proving all things.

2 Tim.4

[5] But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Make FULL proof of thy ministry

2 Tim.3

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

And finally using ALL of the inspired words of God for ALL of our doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction.

.

But picking and choosing what you want to use does not even follow what you just said. Also are you going to reply to my post I have asked you to?

[Guest shiloh357]

I know when I am doing what is needed when I get that same warring within that Paul got whenever his mind was on the delight of the law of the Lord.

"But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."

But that is talking about Paul's experience as an unbeliever trying to earn God's favor by keeping the law. By the end of that chapter, he is asking for deliverance. Paul is relating what it is like trying to keep God's commandments under the law of sin and death. Rom. 7 is not Paul's experience as a believer. If you are going off of Romans 7, you are going backwards and are not a believer.

Wiersbe writes of this:

"What is the practical application of all this? Simply this: In our new position before God, as dead to the Law, we are not expected to obey God in our own strength. God has not enslaved us under a “Christian Law” that we must obey in order to be holy. Rather, He has given us His Holy Spirit who enables us to fulfill the demands of God’s holiness. Christians may have the victory of Joh. 6:1-71 and no longer be enslaved to the body of flesh, but there is more to the Christian life. Shouldn’t we produce fruit for God? Certainly! But the minute we start doing works in our own strength, we discover that we are failures; and, sad to say, many well-meaning Christians stop right there and become spiritual casualties. Rather, we should accept the truths of Rom. 7:1-25 — that we are indeed failures in ourselves, that the Law is good but we are carnal, and then allow the Spirit to work out God’s will in our life. May God enable us to reckon ourselves dead to sin (Rom. 6:1-23), and dead to the Law (Rom. 7:1-25) that we might, through the Spirit, enjoy the blessed liberty of God’s children and glorify God in holy living." ~ Warren Wiersbe

Besides, you still have not demonstrated how you know your works are good enough and when you have done enough in this life.

I know if that war between the laws of God and the laws of sin were to ever stop, then I have fallen off course. Satan comes after those that are DOING God's will!

That's your problem. You are confused about who and what is at war. God's commadments are not at war with anyone or anything. The law of sin and death is the inward law in operation in the heart of an unbeliever. It is exposed by the righteousness of God's laws; it is not at war with God's laws.

My anchor is trusting in God's word!

But you don't believe the Bible when it says that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works (Eph. 2:8-9). In fact, you have run away from and ignored those very verses from the outset in this discussion. You don't really believe the Bible at all. What you are trusting in is your works for salvation. It is really a subtle form of idolatry on your part. In trying to keep God's commandments, you have made self an idol. You have taken the focus off Christ and now your faith and trust is in your efforts to save yourself and not in Christ.

I trust that God will be a fair judge.

God is not fair. He has never been "fair." "Fair" is a carnal attribute of man. Rather, God is just. If God were fair, He would have rubbed man out a long time ago. God is just, holy, merciful and gracious, but He is NOT fair. If you are trusting in God to be fair and judge on the basis of your works, you will go to hell. A real Christian pleads the blood of Jesus and does not plead personal goodness or works as the basis for salvation.

I trust that God knows my intentions!

But see, it's not about intentions. Many sinners are good people and have good intentions. But the problem here is that you made it about good works, not good intentions. You are not saved by good intentions. Is that what you will plead at the throne? That you had good intentions? What makes you think your intentions are good enough to please God??? God does not judge good on a sliding scale. He doesn't have one category for good works and another for those who had good intentions.

I trust that God will be merciful!

Why should he be merciful? You said that YOU are the one who decides your eternal destiny. You said that YOU were the one who decides if you are saved. You have set the bar for how you want to be saved. Your basis is on YOUR works. If God shows you mercy, then you would be saved by something other than your works. You have rejected mercy and grace and opted to be saved on the grounds of your personal merit. Based on that standard there is no provision of mercy available for you. Besides if you are good enough and your works are perfect enough, then why would you need mercy? Can mercy provide you anything that your good works can't provide? Are you sure you are good enough stand under the weight of God's justice?

I trust God's word that tells me if I keep His commandments that doing so will give me eternal life!

God never said that keeping His commandments will give you eternal life.

[Eccl12v13]

But picking and choosing what you want to use does not even follow what you just said. Also are you going to reply to my post I have asked you to?

Which? There are a lot of quotes on some of these post. Hard to follow which is which and who is asking who a question!

[Guest shiloh357]

Also what Eccl and Chesterton refuse to do is follow these two simple Bible study rules. Doing so would likely change there whole life.

Let's now read how God tells us to study His word;

Isa.28

[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Topic with topic. Line upon line. Searching the scriptures here and there.

Luke 4

[4] And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Using EVERY WORD of God. That means, Gen. to Rev.

Acts 24

[14] But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Doing as Paul, and believing ALL THINGS written in the law and the prophets, Old AND New Testaments.

2 Tim.3

[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Knowing that the same scriptures that we read in the OT are able to give salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

1 Thes.5

[21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Proving all things.

2 Tim.4

[5] But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Make FULL proof of thy ministry

2 Tim.3

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

And finally using ALL of the inspired words of God for ALL of our doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction.

That is a pretty sloppy apporoach to hermeneutics and even at that, you don't come close to using all of God's inspired words. You have a few pet Scriptures that you regurgitate over and over while you ignore the vast amounts of Scripture that has been posted by others.