Does THIS Doctrine line up with God's Words?

[Isaiah 6:8]

But picking and choosing what you want to use does not even follow what you just said. Also are you going to reply to my post I have asked you to?

Which? There are a lot of quotes on some of these post. Hard to follow which is which and who is asking who a question!

This post.

Please can you respond to this? You just took several scriptures out of context. Be careful with that as Satan has quoted scripture, but out of context. Just quoting scripture does not make one right.

Okay this is turning into yet another Catholic doctrine thread. This is going to stop, now, or I will shut down the thread. No questions asked, and I do not care who started it. I saw this coming as I saw the direction Chesterton was going already with the catholic doctrine of salvation by works and faith, not faith alone.

In answer to the OSAS question in the original OP I think the parable of the Sower explains it and unless I have missed it explains everything.

Luke 8(NKJV)

The Parable of the Sower

4 And when a great multitude had gathered, and they had come to Him from every city, He spoke by a parable: 5 “A sower went out to sow his seed. And as he sowed, some fell by the wayside; and it was trampled down, and the birds of the air devoured it. 6 Some fell on rock; and as soon as it sprang up, it withered away because it lacked moisture. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up with it and choked it. 8 But others fell on good ground, sprang up, and yielded a crop a hundredfold.” When He had said these things He cried, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

The Purpose of Parables

9 Then His disciples asked Him, saying, “What does this parable mean?”

10 And He said, “To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that

‘ Seeing they may not see,

And hearing they may not understand.’

The Parable of the Sower Explained

11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

So its about letting the Seed of the word of God grow and prudence fruit. All a person has to do is hold on to it and let it grow. Holding on by the strictest definition is a work but in this sense it is the difference of keeping a gift or throwing it away, or allowing it to be stolen. So can you lose your salvation? Well according to this yes, it can be stolen or choked out. You can choose not to let it grow.

Now if you hold on and let it bear fruit then you are saved. Again we do not work for salvation. We are given it. We can give it up. We can lost it by letting the world crowd it out. We do need to work out the salvation by fighting off thieves, and holding tight to it. So in that respect we do work and work out our salvation. For faith with out works is dead. However, its not the works that saves us, its the faith.

You see, Jesus says its being born of the spirit that saves us. So look at it this way. No one can work to be born. We are given life. It is up to us to keep it. We need to feed ourselves, and grow and learn, and protect ourselves. But yet it is no work of ours that makes us be born. There is no way for us to "Work" our way to life. Until we are born of the spirit we cannot live, we can not be saved and we can not be changed into a new creature. Once we are given the gift of salvation we are then Born.

Just like any child that is Born of the flesh, a person born of the spirit can lose that life. However that life is in and of itself is a gift. No one is saved by works. They are saved by grace through faith. They need to then work to keep their faith alive. People seem to be confused thinking that they have to work to become alive. This is simply not possible, nor is is biblical.

To make it fit with the Word you must do violence to it and take things out of context and ignore the rest of the chapter and book in which each verse is taken, not to mention the rest of the Bible.

This verse sums it up.

Ephesians 2

By Grace Through Faith

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We were dead, he made us alive, we can not work our way to alive from dead. That is impossible. You can work yourselves to death however, that is possible.

[Eccl12v13]

But picking and choosing what you want to use does not even follow what you just said. Also are you going to reply to my post I have asked you to?

Which? There are a lot of quotes on some of these post. Hard to follow which is which and who is asking who a question!

This post.

Please can you respond to this? You just took several scriptures out of context. Be careful with that as Satan has quoted scripture, but out of context. Just quoting scripture does not make one right.

Okay this is turning into yet another Catholic doctrine thread. This is going to stop, now, or I will shut down the thread. No questions asked, and I do not care who started it. I saw this coming as I saw the direction Chesterton was going already with the catholic doctrine of salvation by works and faith, not faith alone.

In answer to the OSAS question in the original OP I think the parable of the Sower explains it and unless I have missed it explains everything.

Luke 8(NKJV)

The Parable of the Sower

4 And when a great multitude had gathered, and they had come to Him from every city, He spoke by a parable: 5 “A sower went out to sow his seed. And as he sowed, some fell by the wayside; and it was trampled down, and the birds of the air devoured it. 6 Some fell on rock; and as soon as it sprang up, it withered away because it lacked moisture. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up with it and choked it. 8 But others fell on good ground, sprang up, and yielded a crop a hundredfold.” When He had said these things He cried, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

The Purpose of Parables

9 Then His disciples asked Him, saying, “What does this parable mean?”

10 And He said, “To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that

‘ Seeing they may not see,

And hearing they may not understand.’

The Parable of the Sower Explained

11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

So its about letting the Seed of the word of God grow and prudence fruit. All a person has to do is hold on to it and let it grow. Holding on by the strictest definition is a work but in this sense it is the difference of keeping a gift or throwing it away, or allowing it to be stolen. So can you lose your salvation? Well according to this yes, it can be stolen or choked out. You can choose not to let it grow.

Now if you hold on and let it bear fruit then you are saved. Again we do not work for salvation. We are given it. We can give it up. We can lost it by letting the world crowd it out. We do need to work out the salvation by fighting off thieves, and holding tight to it. So in that respect we do work and work out our salvation. For faith with out works is dead. However, its not the works that saves us, its the faith.

You see, Jesus says its being born of the spirit that saves us. So look at it this way. No one can work to be born. We are given life. It is up to us to keep it. We need to feed ourselves, and grow and learn, and protect ourselves. But yet it is no work of ours that makes us be born. There is no way for us to "Work" our way to life. Until we are born of the spirit we cannot live, we can not be saved and we can not be changed into a new creature. Once we are given the gift of salvation we are then Born.

Just like any child that is Born of the flesh, a person born of the spirit can lose that life. However that life is in and of itself is a gift. No one is saved by works. They are saved by grace through faith. They need to then work to keep their faith alive. People seem to be confused thinking that they have to work to become alive. This is simply not possible, nor is is biblical.

To make it fit with the Word you must do violence to it and take things out of context and ignore the rest of the chapter and book in which each verse is taken, not to mention the rest of the Bible.

This verse sums it up.

Ephesians 2

By Grace Through Faith

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We were dead, he made us alive, we can not work our way to alive from dead. That is impossible. You can work yourselves to death however, that is possible.

Are you kidding me? WHICH quote above would you like me to reply to?

.

[Isaiah 6:8]

This is the full post of what I wrote, I put all scripture into quotes.

In answer to the OSAS question in the original OP I think the parable of the Sower explains it and unless I have missed it explains everything.

Luke 8(NKJV)

The Parable of the Sower

4 And when a great multitude had gathered, and they had come to Him from every city, He spoke by a parable: 5 “A sower went out to sow his seed. And as he sowed, some fell by the wayside; and it was trampled down, and the birds of the air devoured it. 6 Some fell on rock; and as soon as it sprang up, it withered away because it lacked moisture. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up with it and choked it. 8 But others fell on good ground, sprang up, and yielded a crop a hundredfold.” When He had said these things He cried, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

The Purpose of Parables

9 Then His disciples asked Him, saying, “What does this parable mean?”

10 And He said, “To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that

‘ Seeing they may not see,

And hearing they may not understand.’

The Parable of the Sower Explained

11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

So its about letting the Seed of the word of God grow and prudence fruit. All a person has to do is hold on to it and let it grow. Holding on by the strictest definition is a work but in this sense it is the difference of keeping a gift or throwing it away, or allowing it to be stolen. So can you lose your salvation? Well according to this yes, it can be stolen or choked out. You can choose not to let it grow.

Now if you hold on and let it bear fruit then you are saved. Again we do not work for salvation. We are given it. We can give it up. We can lost it by letting the world crowd it out. We do need to work out the salvation by fighting off thieves, and holding tight to it. So in that respect we do work and work out our salvation. For faith with out works is dead. However, its not the works that saves us, its the faith.

You see, Jesus says its being born of the spirit that saves us. So look at it this way. No one can work to be born. We are given life. It is up to us to keep it. We need to feed ourselves, and grow and learn, and protect ourselves. But yet it is no work of ours that makes us be born. There is no way for us to "Work" our way to life. Until we are born of the spirit we cannot live, we can not be saved and we can not be changed into a new creature. Once we are given the gift of salvation we are then Born.

Just like any child that is Born of the flesh, a person born of the spirit can lose that life. However that life is in and of itself is a gift. No one is saved by works. They are saved by grace through faith. They need to then work to keep their faith alive. People seem to be confused thinking that they have to work to become alive. This is simply not possible, nor is is biblical.

To make it fit with the Word you must do violence to it and take things out of context and ignore the rest of the chapter and book in which each verse is taken, not to mention the rest of the Bible.

This verse sums it up.

Ephesians 2

By Grace Through Faith

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We were dead, he made us alive, we can not work our way to alive from dead. That is impossible. You can work yourselves to death however, that is possible.

[~candice~]

God holds on to us, Isaiah. If our salvation depended on US holding on, none would be saved.

[Guest shiloh357]

It should be noted that the parable of the sower and the seed is not about salvation. The "seed" in that parable is the Word of God. The "seed" is not salvation. The parable does not have salvation as its object. The parable pertains to four categories of soil and the soil represents the heart of the person.

At any given time, due to circumstances or our own stubborness or lack of thereof, each of us can respond to the Word of God in a manner comisserate with one of the four kinds of soil. We can be hardened, shallow, full of worldy cares, or we can receive the word and let it grow and produce fruit in our lives. To make this about salvation goes beyond the scope and purpose of the parable.

Parables are stories that have one central point or idea. It is important for the reader to keep to the point and not expand the parable beyond the object the author has in view.

[Isaiah 6:8]

God holds on to us, Isaiah. If our salvation depended on US holding on, none would be saved.

Yes but we can reject the gift. You can throw away any gift you are given. There are pastors who are not going to make it because though they preach they do not know Him. You see salvation is more then just belief, As I stated it God giving us new life. Once we have that new life, if we choose to get rid of it and try to, or to let it die we can. At least this disagreement, has got us back on track with the OSAS. thread vs the faith vs works it turned into. Yes God hold on to us. However he still has given us free will to fully reject him.

This goes to the faith without works is dead. Grace by Faith is what saves us. We are made alive in Christ. As I said, You can not work your way to life, but you can work your self to death. I know many who believe, and have some amount of faith but they try to work there way into heaven and they work there way right on out of it.

How many people have claimed the name of Jesus, with out letting the change work? They let the word die.

Matthew 7:21-29

New King James Version (NKJV)

I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

So the question would be, were they not really saved in the first place? Or did they have the word and have some belief but they let the world crowd out the word and let the world push out the seed?

Yes the parable was about the heart conditions, but it does speak of salvation being brought by the word when embraced. The thing is there are some where the word is welcomed and yet, it dies. were they ever able to be saved if they came to the belief and faith? or were they never saved?

I have seen many claim Christ, and even live the life and show fruit, that later walked away 100% Are they still saved when they flat out refuse to take anything from God, and refuse to let him work in there life any more?

My stepfather is a good example of this. He was very godly, had words from God, lead bible study's etc.. but now he has completely turned away from God 100% was he ever saved, is he still saved, even though he has walked away from God and turned his back on him? You see the cares of the world choked out the life of him. It was working to provide for the kids to the exclusion of all else including God. Will he still make it even if he no longer has faith?

[Isaiah 6:8]

It should be noted that the parable of the sower and the seed is not about salvation. The "seed" in that parable is the Word of God. The "seed" is not salvation. The parable does not have salvation as its object. The parable pertains to four categories of soil and the soil represents the heart of the person.

At any given time, due to circumstances or our own stubborness or lack of thereof, each of us can respond to the Word of God in a manner comisserate with one of the four kinds of soil. We can be hardened, shallow, full of worldy cares, or we can receive the word and let it grow and produce fruit in our lives. To make this about salvation goes beyond the scope and purpose of the parable.

Parables are stories that have one central point or idea. It is important for the reader to keep to the point and not expand the parable beyond the object the author has in view.

Then could you explain why Jesus mentions Salvation?

1 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

He does this, before it gains root. So you are stating if it starts to grow, but gets killed, they were never saved to begin with? Yes this is about the saving word of God. Not just the heart condition.

[~candice~]

There is a huge difference between refusing to accept the gift in the first place, and losing the gift once it has been received. Sorry Iz but the Parable of the Sower can't be used to assert salvation can be lost. It's about the condition of the heart and under which condition solid faith grows and produces fruit. It's not about solid mature trees dying.

[enoob57]

Eternal Security is defined within itself... Will God ever end?

Eph 4:30

30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

NKJV

John 14:16-18

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

KJV

Love, Steven

[Isaiah 6:8]

There is a huge difference between refusing to accept the gift in the first place, and losing the gift once it has been received. Sorry Iz but the Parable of the Sower can't be used to assert salvation can be lost. It's about the condition of the heart and under which condition solid faith grows and produces fruit. It's not about solid mature trees dying.

Its about trees that start to grow, it mentions the saving word of the Lord. I am not speaking of sold trees. But seedlings.