Guest shiloh357 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Intentional, unrepentant sin can destroy one's faith. Fortunately, an authentic believer is not living in intentional unrepentant sin and thus has nothing to fear where eternity is concerned. Whatever that's worth!! Regardless, you are admitting that our actions matter to our salvation, which is good! Gal 6 7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that naturea will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Works matter in that they reveal the authenticity of our faith. If, however, you are depending on what you do to save you, you are NOT a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccl12v13 Posted October 31, 2011 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 115 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Works matter in that they reveal the authenticity of our faith. If, however, you are depending on what you do to save you, you are NOT a Christian. Can you quote just one verse that states faith only can save a person? I'm not saying that faith is not needed....but does God tell us that ONLY faith is needed? Because James tells us our faith is dead if we do not have works. God's word tells us that works AND faith are needed! So it look like BOTH are needed for salvation! Actally....God's word tells us that it takes more than Faith AND Works for salvation! . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacey c Posted October 31, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 913 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/29/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/02/1969 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I can do nothing to earn my salvation, it was already sealed when I accepted what He did for me on Calvary. It takes more than just faith and acceptance for what Christ did for salvation! James 1 [21] Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. [22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. [23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: [24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. [25] But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. We have to DO something for salvation! Some sort of act MUST be taken. For if we have faith only but do not act upon it we are left with dead faith! I can have faith in God all I want...but until I prove my faith by taking action my faith is dead? Let's go and read the next chapter of James where he tells us this; James 2 [14] What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? Well? Can faith alone save a man? And just WHAT is it that we are to be saved from? Afterall....that's what salvation is....being saved FROM SOMETHING! Let's continue while you think about that for a moment..... [15] If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, [16] And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? [17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Now let's read of one example James gives us that shows some sort of action, some sort of deed, some sort of WORK is needed to go along with the faith we claim. [21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? And what was the 'work' that Abraham performed proving his faith in the Lord? He drew back the knife! [24] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Just because Paul does not use works as an example does NOT mean works is not needed! Let's read some more... [26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. So...are we to ignore the writings of James because Paul tells us that; Eph.2 [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. No we are not. What we MUST understand is that when Paul speaks of 'works' and 'deeds' of the law, he is speaking about ANOTHER set of laws. A set of laws other than the ones he tells us to keep and that he says are holy, just and good! Will you search God's word to find that Paul speaks of TWO sets of laws in his writings? God's word tells us we will be judged by our works! But does that mean faith is not needed? No! It just means that BOTH are a requirement for salvation! . It is because of our salvation, that we work the works of faith. If we are truly saved then we have the love of Christ in us, for Him and our fellow man that requires us to go forth and show that love to others. We are to be a light, and hows that? We show the love of our Father to a dark and dismal world, by our acts of faith and love. If you donot have a Agape love for those in need, does it show a true salvation. Our works of faith are a outward expression of what Christ has done for us, it doesnot get us into heaven, but if we donot show this outward expression are we truly saved to begin with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccl12v13 Posted October 31, 2011 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 115 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 It is because of our salvation, that we work the works of faith. If we are truly saved then we have the love of Christ in us, for Him and our fellow man that requires us to go forth and show that love to others. We are to be a light, and hows that? We show the love of our Father to a dark and dismal world, by our acts of faith and love. But will faith alone save you? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Sin is the ONLY action God tells us will cause Him to blot out a name from His books. So WHO is responsible for whether a person sins or not? The individual....each one of us is responsible for either commiting or not comminting sin! So WHO is responsible for ensuring their name is NOT blotted out of God's books? The individual.....each one of us! And what is the reward for each of us? Salvation! Eternal life with God is what He promised! Being spared dying the second death! NOT being thrown into the lake of fire is salvation! That is what we are saved FROM! How can obedience be the result of salvation when salvation IS the end result? Do we receive salvation because of DISOBEDIENCE to or to obeying God? Readers....do NOT let someone attempt to tell you that obedience is the RESULT of salvation! Let's not forget about that common sense God gave us! . The problem with the above post is manifold: 1. Salvation is not a reward for good deeds/righteous living. It is a gift that God gives us apart from personal merit (Rom. 6:23) 2. Salvation is not what we receive AFTER we die. Salvatoin/Eternral life is a "right now" present day possession that a Chrstian has aready received (John 5:24; I John 5:11-13). 3. Salvation does not depend on works. If it did, then Christ's sacrifice is meaningless. If I am solely responsible for my salvation, there is no need for grace; in fact, works in terms of salvation is enemy of grace. 4. Salvation is not predicated on commonsense. It is predicated on the foolishness of the Cross. Ecclv is telling you to look to yourself for salvation. He is telling you that you are the master of your fate. The Bible points us to the cross. The Bible points us to Jesus as the author and finisher of our faith. Christianity is Christ. Salvation is a work of God alone. 5. We are saved by grace through faith and not by works For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (Eph 2:8-9) 6. Our works are the demonstration of our faith: Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. (Php 2:12-13) Paul tells us to "work out" our salvation; he does not tell us to work for our salvation. The word in Greek for "work out" in v. 12 means, "put on display; demonstrate." It means that we are demonstrate our salvation by what we do. Our works are the demonstration of the authenticity of our profession of faith. It is in what we do that we demonstrate to the world that our profession is genuine and that do in fact, serve Jesus. Paul also says that we were created for good works (Eph. 2:10), but those works are meant to be a showcase to the world. Jesus said: In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. (Mat 5:16) Our obedience is the result of salvation we have already received and possess. Obedience is not how we get saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 So you believe that it is 100% God's fault when someone goes to Hell? Not at all. I don't think anyone goes to Hell because of God. You go to hell because you reject the Gospel of salvation by grace through faith. You go to hell because you reject the finsihed work of Christ on the cross. Hell is the natural consequence for putting your faith in any other than Jesus and finished work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Works matter in that they reveal the authenticity of our faith. If, however, you are depending on what you do to save you, you are NOT a Christian. Can you quote just one verse that states faith only can save a person? No, but I can and have cited scripture that says are saved by grace through faith apart from works (Eph. 2:8-9) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccl12v13 Posted October 31, 2011 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 115 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 We are saved by grace through faith and not by works Obedience is not how we get saved. Are works not needed to go along with faith? Will faith alone save? So I can NOT obey and receive salvation? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccl12v13 Posted October 31, 2011 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 115 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 No, but I can and have cited scripture that says are saved by grace through faith apart from works (Eph. 2:8-9) I'm trying to understand you here....are you claiming that a person can be saved with faith and no works are needed? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacey c Posted October 31, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 913 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/29/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/02/1969 Share Posted October 31, 2011 We are saved by grace through faith and not by works Obedience is not how we get saved. Are works not needed to go along with faith? Will faith alone save? So I can NOT obey and receive salvation? . Faith in what Christ did on the cross saves you. Works of faith are an outward expression of your salvation. If one truly loves God they want to obey. If man could work his right into heaven Jesus would not have needed to die on the cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts