Valoran Posted December 18, 2011 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 200 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/11/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 18, 2011 (edited) I do not think we should dismiss naturalism so readily. Naturalism assumes that nature is a closed system, and therefore there is nothing supernatural. If, nature is a closed system and science is able to deal with nature, then the scientific method is necessary and sufficient to find all objective truths. But if there is a spiritual world (an alternate dimension that interacts with ours) that is involved, then naturalism is based on a lie. Thus even a working conclusion isn't the real truth. Even if naturalism is not correct, I do not see any evidence that is wrong, silly or rudimentary by default. What do you call a statement containing 99% truth and 1% untruth? Acceptance of that 1% untruth can result in grave consequences. And yet there is no evidence whatsoever that a spiritual world actually exists. Right now, the choice we have is between workable explanations founded on empirical data that can be seen, tested, and verified, versus hypothetical explanations based on unproven assumptions. Edited December 18, 2011 by Valoran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted December 19, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted December 19, 2011 And yet there is no evidence whatsoever that a spiritual world actually exists. Correction, no evidence that people can't write off as some other explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted December 19, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Well if you had real tangible data to offer.... Anyone can write-off any explanation they don't want to believe, no matter how strong the evidence. Psychology 101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted December 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2011 I left for a few weeks and the other thread got closed. I think I was debating with D-9 about the scientific method and how evolution does not seem to require the experimentation part of the equation. For example, the fish that grew legs and lungs. Where is that in the scientific method? Also, Sam Vines looked at the Dissent from Darwin list and quickly took it from 800 to 500, but I am unsure now as to why that was. Sam, Do you think it's wrong for modern scientists to be skeptical of the claims of evolution? Do YOU consider yourself a skeptic? (This is to all atheists) I noticed toward the end of the thread that Nebraska man was mentioned, and the atheists claim that scientists were skeptical of that hominid. Who do you think was more skeptical? Creation scientists or evolutionary scientists? There was a time when Nebraska man was accepted as a hominid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted December 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2011 http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cm/v19/n1/apewoman-statue-misleads To me this seems fraudulent. You may argue 'artistic licence', but one would think they would have studied the foot bones first! Wouldn't you? In any case, they refuse to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted December 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2011 Anyone can write-off any explanation they don't want to believe, no matter how strong the evidence. That's why sometimes i get a bit bored with these discussions and leave for weeks on end. It is obvious to me that atheists who debate on message boards want to believe in evolution and because this is what they want, they have a hard time being skeptical of any part of it and have no intention on considering anything to the contrary. At least in my own situation, when I was agnostic, I have to say I was open to the truth, whatever the truth would be. And in a sense, I did not WANT to believe in christianity. I would have gained some personal satisfaction in not believing in it, (due to personal reasons) but I realized that if it was true, I certainly did want to know and be in the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valoran Posted December 21, 2011 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 200 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/11/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2011 That's why sometimes i get a bit bored with these discussions and leave for weeks on end. It is obvious to me that atheists who debate on message boards want to believe in evolution and because this is what they want, they have a hard time being skeptical of any part of it and have no intention on considering anything to the contrary. For what it's worth, this argument would be standing on much stronger grounds if you actually had any evidence of "anything to the contrary". Theist arguments are debunked often because they are false. I won't say that every single theist argument is baseless, but unfortunately from what I can tell, that is the case most of the time. The fact is that there are no serious scientific research endeavors set up by Christians to investigate Christianity. There are no Christian scientists doing the hard work and producing credible evidence to prove their pre-determined conclusions. There are only Christians consoling themselves with the thought that the only reason that theist arguments get debunked is because the odds are stacked against them. Self-consolation is certainly much easier than doing research and trying to find solid evidence for your claims. But hey, don't let that stop you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted December 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Anyone can write-off any explanation they don't want to believe, no matter how strong the evidence. ... It is obvious to me that atheists who debate on message boards want to believe in evolution and because this is what they want, they have a hard time being skeptical of any part of it and have no intention on considering anything to the contrary. Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted December 21, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted December 21, 2011 That's why sometimes i get a bit bored with these discussions and leave for weeks on end. It is obvious to me that atheists who debate on message boards want to believe in evolution and because this is what they want, they have a hard time being skeptical of any part of it and have no intention on considering anything to the contrary. For what it's worth, this argument would be standing on much stronger grounds if you actually had any evidence of "anything to the contrary". Theist arguments are debunked often because they are false. I won't say that every single theist argument is baseless, but unfortunately from what I can tell, that is the case most of the time. The fact is that there are no serious scientific research endeavors set up by Christians to investigate Christianity. There are no Christian scientists doing the hard work and producing credible evidence to prove their pre-determined conclusions. There are only Christians consoling themselves with the thought that the only reason that theist arguments get debunked is because the odds are stacked against them. Self-consolation is certainly much easier than doing research and trying to find solid evidence for your claims. But hey, don't let that stop you... And this is a nice way to avoid the challenge of being skeptical towards anything that supports evolutionary theory and mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valoran Posted December 21, 2011 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 200 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/11/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) And this is a nice way to avoid the challenge of being skeptical towards anything that supports evolutionary theory and mindset. Actually, science itself has rejected numerous pieces of dubious evidence in favor of evolution. I'm sure you'll remember it was scientists who did the hard work and came up with evidence that the Piltdown Man was a hoax, for example, and not the creationists (who, as usual, did nothing but talk). Trying to act as though you're being on the side of the open-minded and chiding those who don't accept your views isn't going to work unless you actually have any solid evidence to back up your position. Until then, all you're trying to do is substitute proof with empty and baseless cajolery. Edited December 21, 2011 by Valoran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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