nebula Posted September 30, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Actually, Jedi - What has been termed here as "Hebraic" is actually an Eastern-culture mindset. Case in point - ever see a martial artist-type movie with a master and apprentice? How does the master teach his apprentice? Through studying books and philosophies and philosophers? Are by pointing out lessons from their surroundings and stories? If I have a theological question here in the Western World, I'll be directed to this scripture and that theologian and the other book and whatever doctrine or teaching. I'll be given close-ended answers meant to settle it all. If I have a theological question in the Eastern World, I'll be answered with a story meant to cause me to discover the message within and through the story (like Jesus did with parables). So, do I sound like I'm saying the Chinese and Japanese and Indians are better than Europeans and Americans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted September 30, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 30, 2004 Actually, Jedi - What has been termed here as "Hebraic" is actually an Eastern-culture mindset. Actually it refers to Hebrews and those of the Hebrew Language. Case in point - ever see a martial artist-type movie with a master and apprentice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 QUOTE (nebula @ Sep 30 2004, 12:29 PM) Actually, Jedi - What has been termed here as "Hebraic" is actually an Eastern-culture mindset. Actually it refers to Hebrews and those of the Hebrew Language. The Hebraic pattern of thought is common to many eastern cultures, so it IS an Eastern-culture mindset. This Hebraic vs. Hellenistic Psychology is rubbish and not beneficial to believers. This is the heart of it all. You fail to understand that God did not circumvent the thought patterns of the human authors. You devalue what you do not understand. It is beneficial to believers because there are many idioms, and phrases, and cultural distinctives mentioned in the Bible that help to understand what the prophets and writers of Scripture were addressing. The way a word is used can illustrate, and highlight important spiritual principles. You can arrogantly brush it aside if you wish, but you the one losing out on precious nuggets of understanding from the Scriptures. Paul said that he was one the most prominent Jew that lived during his time. Yet he said that he counted it all dung and worthless that he may gain Christ. He said none of his form life benefited him it was worthless that he may gain Christ. Being a good Jew didnt help Paul become a better Christian. Being a good Pharisee didnt help him at all; in fact it caused him to persecute those who followed God. Being blameless in the law did not help him become the righteousness of God. He said it was all worthless to him. It was all crap in is on words. Phi 3:4-8 KJV Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: (5) Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; (6) Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. (7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. (8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, But you are ignoring WHY Paul said that and exactly why he said it. Paul did not stop being a Pharisee, He did not stop being a Jew, nor did he stop thinking like a Jew. Paul's epistles are based upon an incredible knowledge of the Torah, that they Holy Spirit used when inspiring Paul to write the Scriptures. Paul was comparing his past accomplishments with the greater blessing of being a believer and a servant of the Lord. Paul was willing to and did give up all for Christ. He saw all of his past accomplishments in the flesh as worthless compared to Jesus. Having said that, I would also point out that your use of this Scripture is not EVEN material to this discussion, as we are not talking about being Jews. The whole reason most Jews do not except Jesus is because they do not think spiritually. Actually the historical church as done more to keep Jews out of heaven than Jesus. Jesus is not the problem. The problem has been false Christians persecuting Jews, and the true Christians sitting around in a silent moral indifference, and apathy while these atrocities occured. If we had the mind set of most Jews we would also be rejecting and denying Jesus as our savior also. That has nothing to do with mindset. No one rejects Jesus on an intellcutal basis. They may try to cloak in intellectualism, but the truth is that when confronted with sin, every person has to make a choice. When people reject Jesus, they do so on a spiritual basis. They have to choose between their sin and Jesus. An Hebraic "mindset" has nothing to do with that. It has to do with a particular paradigm, or frame of reference one uses when looking at the world. QUOTE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted September 30, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted September 30, 2004 Offended? I'm lost. Where did the phrase "better than" come out in anything I said? Did I ever say the phrase "better than?" Did yod? Did Shiloh? Where is "better than" ever said? If I say, "Although oranges and lemons are both citrus fruit, oranges are sweet and lemons are sour," am I saying that oranges are better than lemons? Of course not! It just means I wouldn't eat a lemon for a snack any more than I would squeeze oranges over my vegetables nor into my iced tea for flavoring. I am just saying there is a difference between them and thus are best used differently for what their specialties make them for. And BTW - how would you describe and define "the mind of Christ"? How does it work? What does it "look" like? What are its defining characteristics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted September 30, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 30, 2004 Offended? I'm lost. Where did the phrase "better than" come out in anything I said? Did I ever say the phrase "better than?" Did yod? Did Shiloh? Where is "better than" ever said? If I say, "Although oranges and lemons are both citrus fruit, oranges are sweet and lemons are sour," am I saying that oranges are better than lemons? Of course not! It just means I wouldn't eat a lemon for a snack any more than I would squeeze oranges over my vegetables nor into my iced tea for flavoring. I am just saying there is a difference between them and thus are best used differently for what their specialties make them for. And BTW - how would you describe and define "the mind of Christ"? How does it work? What does it "look" like? What are its defining characteristics? What would be the point of the original post but covey that Hellenistic (Gentiles) need to learn to think Hebraic (Jewish). I really don't think neither one of them think any better then the other. They both show qualities and weaknesses. God bless, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Offended? I'm lost. Where did the phrase "better than" come out in anything I said? Did I ever say the phrase "better than?" Did yod? Did Shiloh? Where is "better than" ever said? If I say, "Although oranges and lemons are both citrus fruit, oranges are sweet and lemons are sour," am I saying that oranges are better than lemons? Of course not! It just means I wouldn't eat a lemon for a snack any more than I would squeeze oranges over my vegetables nor into my iced tea for flavoring. I am just saying there is a difference between them and thus are best used differently for what their specialties make them for. And BTW - how would you describe and define "the mind of Christ"? How does it work? What does it "look" like? What are its defining characteristics? What would be the point of the original post but covey that Hellenistic (Gentiles) need to learn to think Hebraic (Jewish). I really don't think neither one of them think any better then the other. They both show qualities and weaknesses. God bless, The point is that the Scriptures are written from the Hebraic paradigm. There some things in the Word that are missed when that paradigm is ignored. There are riches in the Hebrew that can be mined when you understand that culture and evirons that that particular language comes from. It has NOTHING to do with better or worse (except in your mind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted October 1, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 1, 2004 The point is that the Scriptures are written from the Hebraic paradigm. There some things in the Word that are missed when that paradigm is ignored. There are riches in the Hebrew that can be mined when you understand that culture and evirons that that particular language comes from. It has NOTHING to do with better or worse (except in your mind). I will agree with you on that line of thinking. That you need to understand Jewish culture to grasp a better understanding of the Gospels. For one example it would be beneficial to understand Jewish customs and traditions regarding Passover or rules and regs for Sabbaths. This will give you a better insight why Pharisees where so distraught with Jesus when he broke their Sabbath rules. But these insights have nothing to do with Psychology but rather culture. If you would have said the Gentiles and Native Jews have different cultures than I would absolutely agree. God bless, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 I will agree with you on that line of thinking. That you need to understand Jewish culture to grasp a better understanding of the Gospels. For one example it would be beneficial to understand Jewish customs and traditions regarding Passover or rules and regs for Sabbaths. This will give you a better insight why Pharisees where so distraught with Jesus when he broke their Sabbath rules. That is what is meant by approaching the Bible from a Hebraic mindset. You put yourself in their place. You look at the Scripture through Hebrew eyes in light of their culture and traditions. When you do this, certain things that went under your radar before become obvious to you. Middleeasterners think differently, and their culture and traditions are a reflection of that. That is an inescapable fact. But these insights have nothing to do with Psychology but rather culture. Which is what I have been trying to tell you!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Nebula... I never realized how bigoted you were against lemons. This is not how Jesus would do it! He would certainly drink orange juice but to say that He doesn't EQUALLY love lemons proves that all you have is bad FRUIT!! would you like a Pepsi to wash it down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted October 1, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Pepsi with a little lemon added - yum! pepsi with a little orange added - not sure I want to try.... :LOL: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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