rockswillcryout Posted October 13, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/31/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/2003 Share Posted October 13, 2004 <<<<snip>>>> The Bible refers to "sins of the flesh," and if our physical selves were not inclined to sin, <<<<snip>>>> They key word here is "inclined". Nothing forces me to sin. My weak flesh, my SINFUL flesh, makes it harder. But I will say it again, there is always a choice. "Inclination" does not put a gun to my head and force me to do it. <<<<snip>>>> or attached to our souls, why would a physical act, such as sex, be considered a sin?! The Scriptures say that our flesh is corrupt...isn't our flesh our physical body?! This still does no negate the choice factor. We are command to overcome sin, not to let it continue,. Romans 6: 5-7 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin--because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. If there is no choice in our sin, then Christ died on the cross for nothing. But he died so he could help me overcome my sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keslc Posted October 13, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 745 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/27/1976 Share Posted October 13, 2004 This topic came up quite a few months ago as well. Dad Ernie made me thinkk of something else in one of his posts. While I do believe what I wrote here in the thread I linked a few posts back: Read Romans 8 as well. We are all born with a "sin nature" for some that sin manifests itself into a lifestyle of lying or cheating or stealing or homosexuality or _______(fill in the blank). And we are powerless to free ourselves from that sin nature. That's why there is a need for Christ. He condemned sin in sinful man. He made if possible for us to live according to the Holy Spirit rather than according to the sin nature. If we are filled with the Holy Spirit we will walk according to it. Society however wishes to nurture that sin nature to justify the sins that have become "accepted" and " normal". Please understand that I am not saying that christians who live according to the Spirit are perfect. I believe we do make mistakes and we will struggle and fall as long as we live in a fallen world, but we are not "slaves" to sin and when someone says "I'm born that way" it is an excuse. I still pose this question I wrote a few months back when this was brought up: Posted on: Apr 22 2004, 12:08 PM Replies: 67 Views: 635 QUOTE (papasangel @ Apr 11 2004, 06:24 PM) Russel with all due respect I disagree. Homosexuality is a learned response. Because its considered a Taboo in most societies it only adds to the allure of rebellion. Blaming parents is a cop out. Blaming God for making someone homosexual is a copout too. Every man and woman must take a good honest look about their sexuality. Quit blaming someone else for thier choices. The blame game has been overplayed in many aspect of life including homosexuality. We as christians abhor the sin all the while loving the sinner. God, himself has shown examples of His displeasure of sin including homosexuality. The classic example is Sodom and Gomorrah. Christ, Himself went among those who were engaging in practices not pleasing to God and turning them from their sins by His loving example. Christians can do no less. Its not time to throw stones but to take our brother and sister by the hand and lead them away from that sin. Then again none of us is sinless so we need to examine the beams in our own eyes before swiping the mote out of our bretherens eyes. I haven't read throught the whole thread, yet, so maybe I'm repeating what someone else has said, but anyway..... Papasangel, I agree with you. Any sexual activity outside of a marriage between a man and woman is a sin. We have the choice of what activities we engage in. I also feel like we must strongly stress what you have said about hating the sin, but loving the sinner. That is a difficult concept for alot of people to grasp and to separate the two. This does become complicated, though. There is a condition which people are born with that can cause a lot of confusion and self-doubt. My cousin has this condition. It is called Intrasexuality. When my cousin was born, they could not tell whether he was male or female because of physical mutations. At that time, the drs. did not perform genetic testing and just asked his parents what they wanted him to be. They assigned the gender of male to him. As an adult he has discovered that his chromosones are XX (female) so he feels conflicted in himself. The inside wants to be female, but his body was assigned male. I can see how this condition can be very devastating and confusing for people who must live this. His feelings really are not his choice, in this matter. He has decided to be celibate his entire life. What a difficult decision to make, but he has looked to the Lord for the peace and strength to live that decision. In cases like this, alot of christian love and understanding and not condemnation are needed for them to lead Godly lives. My heart breaks for him, but I so admire him, too. It makes me wonder how many people who struggle with homosexuality also have this condition, but are too afraid to admit it. BUT! I do agree that this issue has gotten alot of press lately and it's become a glorified act of rebellion that people use for "shock value" and are balantly disregarding God's Word because they feel like it and they don't want to be "controlled". Thanks!  Forum: Controversial Issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kattanfan Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 On this one I'm afraid your way out there in left field. It doesn't make any difference what animals do, that has nothing to do with man.. On this statement, I both agree and disagree. While the behavior of animals is NOT AT ALL supposed to dictate the behavior of man (sexual or otherwise), it does prove the fact that, when Adam sinned, creation and nature became corrupted. We are all biological beings, and the physical laws which dictate animals also dictate us. We can see the corruption which sin has embedded within nature through the behavior of animals.....God's creation is now imperfect, rife with evil, all because of what we did. You look at some of the behaviors of animals, who themselves have no concept of sin or evil, and notice that the "instinctive behaviors" which they display would be considered unthinkable acts for humans. It is a sign of the perversion which infiltrated creation when Adam sinned. Do you not think that this perversion also affects us?! We are not expected to behave like animals because we were created above them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Posted October 13, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,244 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2004 Here is a really old one LOL God made adam and eve not adam and steve!!! LOL :oww: Sorry its old lol but still funny to me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His son Posted October 14, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 764 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 14, 2004 On this one I'm afraid your way out there in left field. It doesn't make any difference what animals do, that has nothing to do with man.. On this statement, I both agree and disagree. While the behavior of animals is NOT AT ALL supposed to dictate the behavior of man (sexual or otherwise), it does prove the fact that, when Adam sinned, creation and nature became corrupted. We are all biological beings, and the physical laws which dictate animals also dictate us. We can see the corruption which sin has embedded within nature through the behavior of animals.....God's creation is now imperfect, rife with evil, all because of what we did. You look at some of the behaviors of animals, who themselves have no concept of sin or evil, and notice that the "instinctive behaviors" which they display would be considered unthinkable acts for humans. It is a sign of the perversion which infiltrated creation when Adam sinned. Do you not think that this perversion also affects us?! We are not expected to behave like animals because we were created above them. I can agree partly with what you say. God gave man dominion over all that He had created, and Adams sin caused all the negative things that we have in this universe. But man was created in God's image with the freewill to choose, so every sin that man commits is a matter of him choosing to sin. This is not true for animals. The bottom line leaves Adams sin responsible for all deviations in God's universe from total harmony. The idea of genetics being responsible for homosexuality has been exposed as a lie that was put forth by the homosexual community as part of their overall agenda to force their sin on the whole world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His son Posted October 14, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 764 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 14, 2004 I deleted this double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wondering04 Posted October 14, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 88 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/09/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 14, 2004 All our behaviors are choices. We can either choose to do what is said in the Bible or not to choose to do so. God has never given us random rules and regulations, he gives us what he knows is best for us. From the 10 commandments to the various ways of living. It has been proven that many of the cleansing rituals of the Israelites were really based on sound sanitary doctrine. When it comes to sin, we all were born with the sin of Adam and Eve in us, we make a choice to follow God's laws or not. I never had to take my kids aside and teach them to lie, teach them to steal, teach them to be disrespectful, teach them to disobey. They do that naturally and my job as a mom is to teach them to control these impulses. Homosexuality is another action that God advises us against. He has good reasons, some of which we may not understand this side of heaven. We have a choice to make. The same way as we have a choice to refrain from premarital sex, sex outside of marriage, we can choose to refrain from homosexual activities. We choose. I have behaviors that I am still working at overcoming, I could make the excuse that it is because of the abuse that I had as a child that caused me to do these behaviors. It is true that the behaviors are based on what happened in the past, but freedom comes from choice. I now choose not to let my past rule these behaviors and I am working at overcoming them. We are in bondage if we feel that our behaviors are dominated by genetics, environment, parental upbringing, or other behaviors of others. I want to be free from bondage, and it is work, it is not easy, but it can be done. Heather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamjane Posted October 14, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 187 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1983 Share Posted October 14, 2004 i believe that homosexual sex is a sin. however, i don't believe it's a sin to be attracted to someone of the same sex; that's just a temptation. if sexual attraction is what defines homosexuality, then i would personally be homosexual (i'm more attracted to guys, but i've been attracted to girls before, too). so, is homosexual attraction genetic? i agree with the folks who say that it's "genetic" insomuch as we are all born with a sin nature. just think: who taught you to tell your first lie? no one did... it's our natural man, who looks out for himself and carnal pleasure, that sins naturally. the difference between the sin of lying and the sin of homosexuality is this: from the moment a boy is sexually attracted to another boy, he is automatically labeled by his temptation. in his mind, he's labeled by society as a "homosexual". however, from the moment a boy is first tempted to lie, he isn't labeled by society as a "liar". i think that most "homosexual" christians who are or plan to be sexually active have convinced themselves that it must be okay because since the moment they've had sexual feelings, they have been identified by their temptations. a huge struggle among christians from the beginning has been owning the fact that our sins and temptations don't define us, but who we are in Christ is what defines us as children of God. i've spent a good bit of time reading up about the issue of homosexuality and christianity, and i've talked quite a bit with people who consider themselves homosexual christians. even among gay christians, there's a big debate about whether it's okay to have homosexual sex or not. some believe that God is alright with homosexual sex if it's within a loving, committed, "marriage" relationship. others believe that gay christians are simply called to be celibate (just as an "alcoholic" christian would be expected to abstain from alcohol). i agree with the latter belief. i have some good articles about the issue, and also a link to an awesome online community of "gay christians" who grapple with these same questions. if you're interested, just let me know. love in Christ, pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChadB Posted October 14, 2004 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 42 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/07/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 14, 2004 Where exactally in the Bible does it say that homosexuality is OK with God? I have always wondered this. I personally think homosexuality is a sin like any other sin. Its an impulse; a drive to involve yourself in an activity that goes against God. Just curious where the idea that homosexuality is not a sin comes from...... Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aggiekat Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Where exactally in the Bible does it say that homosexuality is OK with God? I have always wondered this. I personally think homosexuality is a sin like any other sin. Its an impulse; a drive to involve yourself in an activity that goes against God. Just curious where the idea that homosexuality is not a sin comes from...... Thanks. The Bibles doesn't say that homosexuality is okay with God. Anywhere. The idea that homosexuality is okay comes from people who want it to be okay. Man will gladly twist the truth if he wants to commit a certain sin badly enough. Man wants to be right. Man is proud. Rather than say, "this is wrong and perverted, but I'm going to do it anyway" Man likes to say "Nahh, it isn't really wrong. I'm right in doing this!". It's our evil sinful nature that makes us accept and try to justify sin. God certainly hasn't. aggiekat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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