Immortality of the Soul?

[sachi]

skillet, quote:

I politly disagree with the proof of "Abraham's bosom" though simpley because it is a parable, and is not literal. Christ's parables are used as anologies to help teach someting correctly or show something incorrectly

O.k. that is fair enough ,Skillet, but what do you make of these words:

Paul writting In Philippians:

"For to me to live is Christ and to die is gain ... I desire to depart andbe with Christ which is better by far.... )1:21/23)

(I mean if, according to Paul, to live in this body 'is Christ', how can dying be 'gain' , if we do not actually go to be with Him . ..?)

Or in 2 Cor 5:6

"As long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord... we are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord."

And Jesus' word to the sinner on the cross: " I tell you this day you will be with me in paradise." Like 23:43

I take these passages literally to mean that when I die my spirit will go to be with Jesus in Heaven.

Edited October 17, 2004 by sachi

[Guest savedbythepassion]

Howdy, all. This is my first post on this site, and I applaud all of my fellow Christian brothers and sisters who seem to have progressed beyond milk, and those who earnestly seek to.

I have recently been studying the Scriptures regarding the afterlife...a topic not well understood or discussed much among Christians or Jews (if you have ever asked a group to give their thoughts on this, you would agree).

From my studies, I have found that it is imperative to underestand the meaning and origin of the words used in the Scripture to describe the afterlife, the context in which they are presented, and whether they stand up to what Christ said in the synoptic Gospels and the other books of the NT.

Specifically, a study of the Hebrew word Sheol, the Greek word Hades in the Septuagint, and the New Testament words Gehenna and Tartarus.

It is my underestanding that Sheol and Hades are equivalent and represent the place where the soul goes after death. It is erroneously translated "Hell" in many English Bibles. Souls of the righteous and unrighteous proceeded to Hades before the fulfillment of the Christ covenenant (Jesus suffering, death and resurrection). After the fulfillment of the Christ covenant, the souls of the righteous in Christ proceed directly to Heaven to be with God the triune and await the resurrection of their perfected physical bodies with Christ's second coming.

It is with Christ's second coming that all the dead will be resurrected, the sheep and the goats divided at the judgement and sin, death, Hades, Satan and his followers (both human and spiritual) will be cast into the lake of fire (Hell=Gehenna).

Christians will enjoy an eternity in the presence of God and Christ the King and the rewards of a fruitful Christian life will be bestowed.

I look forward to discussing this with anyone in further detail.

The Peace of Christ abide with you.

[sachi]

Skillet,quote:

Think about it, if you die and then immiditaly are jugded (either go to heaven or hell) then what is the point of CHrist's return to judge everyone else again?

I am not , like a pastor or theologian, so my understanding of some of this is from what teaching I have received in Bible studies in our Church, etc.

But as I understand it, there is a difference between where the spirit of man goes after he dies (either heaven or hell) and the various judgments.

After we die our spirit goes to heaven to be with Jesus or it goes to hell.

However the Bible talks about several different 'judgements'. (Some one on this board here is in all likelihood much more knowledgeable @ this, and can probably elucidate on the different Judgements more clearly ...)

One of these "Judgements" is the 'Judgement of Believers' before the Judgement seat of Christ.

This is not a judgement of condemnation, because the believers who died are already 'saved' and in Heaven with Jesus, and the ones who get raptured join this host of saints with Christ.

But it is one of determining the believers rewards. It will take place at the Coming of Christ (ICor 3:13-15)

The believers rewards are called 'Crowns' - which , after receiving them- we will lay at the feet of our glorious Lord and King, Jesus.

There is so much awaiting the believer the moment we depart from this earth . . That is why Paul could say " our light & momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all"

Edited October 17, 2004 by sachi

[Guest savedbythepassion]

Hi, sachi.

I see you posted this from scripture:

And Jesus' word to the sinner on the cross: " I tell you this day you will be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43

What I understand is that the word Paradise was used interchangebly in the Scripture with Abraham's Bosom. It is the third level of heaven (the Hebrew scholars defining seven levels of heaven). This level corresponds to Sheol/Hades where Christ went to preach to the disobedient spirits while his body was in the grave:

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.

As has been mentioned in this thread, Jesus claimed to Mary after his ressurection that he had not ascended to his Father yet, and thus had not gone to heaven. His spirit had visited Hades, however.

Jesus' spirit went to Hades and he proclaimed his victory to come and at his ascension he led the righteous captive's souls in captivity out of Hades into the presence of God in highest heaven. The unrighteous souls remain in Hades to await the second coming of Christ and the final judgement.

Ephesians 4:7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ's gift. 8 Therefore it is said, "When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men." 9 (In saying, "He ascended," what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Edited October 17, 2004 by savedbythepassion

[larryt]

Hi Old Timer,

I suppose you wish to have a definition of Soul, Spirit and Death as you have some argument you wish to put forth showing that the normal definitions are not correct or that the idea of

[Guest idied2]

To all,

If this is to become a backslaping, patting one another, thread, nothing will be accomplished.

I have asked a question of those that believe in "soul sleep." Would you please define "DEATH"?

I would add at this point, Please define SOUL & SPIRIT, AND DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE TWO IF THERE IS ANY DISTINCTION.

I really cannot discuss this with you if you will not define your terms.

LT

My humble apollogy if I have seemed to show partiality to persons. This was not my intention. I was just agreeing with the word. The truth that was stated better than I could. I LOVE YOU ALL and the LORD JESUS CHRIST and HIS truth.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[larryt]

To all,

If this is to become a backslaping, patting one another, thread, nothing will be accomplished.

I have asked a question of those that believe in "soul sleep." Would you please define "DEATH"?

I would add at this point, Please define SOUL & SPIRIT, AND DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE TWO IF THERE IS ANY DISTINCTION.

I really cannot discuss this with you if you will not define your terms.

LT

My humble apollogy if I have seemed to show partiality to persons. This was not my intention. I was just agreeing with the word. The truth that was stated better than I could. I LOVE YOU ALL and the LORD JESUS CHRIST and HIS truth.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

Hi idied2

No offense taken, I aggree that we should all let the word speek for itself. Let's let iron sharpen iron. So get your iron out and start sharpening.

1Pe 3:15  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

LT

[Guest idied2]

So where was CHRIST after he was crucified and before HE was resurected? since HE also says I have not yet assended to my FATHER in heaven?

Joh 20:17

Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' "

Does anyone know?

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Guest idied2]

And where are the two witnesses without the breath of Life in them?

Re 11:9

Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves.

Re 11:11

Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[larryt]

So where was CHRIST after he was crucified and before HE was resurected? since HE also says I have not yet assended to my FATHER in heaven?

Joh 20:17

Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' "

Does anyone know?

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

Hi idied2,

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