All Israel / The Israel of God / Spirit Israel / Spirit Jew = all beli

[nebula]

But if the Church is now God's people, His "Israel", that problem is overcome. His promises are fulfilled in Jesus, through His new creation people; they are eternally true and totally fulfilled.

 

 

Gandalf, "the Church" is not a Biblical term. It's a German-derived Celtic word. Some sources state it comes from the word "Circle," referring to pagan rituals that gathered in a circle. Other sources state it means "God's house."

 

Neither of these are the term used in the Scriptures, which is ekklesia - which is a normal Greek word that means "called out assembly." Even "Congregation" would make for a more accurate translation than "Church."

 

Jesus never created a "new" assembly. He called out a remnant of Israel (the twelve apostles, the other disciples who followed Him, the 3000 added at Pentecost - which by the way was the Jewish Festival translated in English as the Feast of Weeks - and so forth). The only thing "new" was that there was a new covenant cut between  God and man, and with this new covenant both Jews and Gentiles were given access to the Father apart from the Covenant of Sinaii.

[Qnts2]

 

 

 

By the way, Baryon, I apologize for any emotional outbursts on the topic. There's a long history of debates on this topic here, and it is easy for us to treat the subject as an on-going saga rather than regard your inquiries as a new book (so to speak).

And for some of us, there are personal elements involved.

Yes, it does seem that the subject gets rather emotive and personal, almost as if some will personally lose something if their particular opinion is not upheld, so they must "post to the death".

 

 

I usually try to avoid this discussion. And yes, I personally do lose something. For me, replacement theology negates the promises of God. If replacement theology were true, then God would be a liar as His promises to the Jewish people were not real. God could change His mind or could make statements to people He never really meant to uphold. .

 

But if the Church is now God's people, His "Israel", that problem is overcome. His promises are fulfilled in Jesus, through His new creation people; they are eternally true and totally fulfilled.

 

That does not solve the problem as that means God lied to the Jewish people, who are Israel.

 

No where in scripture is the church called Israel. The children of Israel are the descendents of Jacob/Israel, and that has never changed.   

 

The promises given to the assembly of believers in Jesus are different promises given to Israel. Believers are called sons of Abraham, not sons of Jacob. Believers receive the indwelling Holy Spirit who circumcises the heart. Israel is physically ritually circumcised. Israel inherits land. Believers inherit the Kingdom of God.  

 

Most children of Israel need Jesus and a future is prophesied when Israel will see Jesus step down on Mt. Sinai, at which time Israel will greet Him with the official Messianic greeting. Believers already have Him.

 

In the OT/Tenakh, it is prophesied to the children of Israel:

 

Deut 32:21 They have provoked Me to jealousy by what is not God; They have moved Me to anger by their foolish idols. But I will provoke them to jealousy by those who are not a nation;

 

Who are those who are not a nation? That is the assembly of believers, who come from all nations, tribes, tongues. Believers are from all different nations, and these believers are to make Israel jealous.  

 

This verse is repeated in Romans 10, showing the predominantly Gentile church is prophesied in the OT, and are to make Israel jealous.

 

Romans 10:

¹⁹ But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says:

“I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation,

I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”^[l]

²⁰ But Isaiah is very bold and says:

“I was found by those who did not seek Me;

I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”^[m]

Edited June 11, 2013 by Qnts2

[GoldenEagle]

First let me say that I have discuss this manytimes on other fourms , And I always get a diffrent answer .

 

The word ''Hebrew '' , In aramic , Is the word Ibriy - aramic - Which come from the root word Abar -aramic - , Which means '' To Cross Over To Pass Over '' , In The Aramic ( Hebrew ) language . In Ashuric / Syriac ( Arabic ) , The word 'Aabiyr - arabic - , For ''Eber '' , Means ''The One Who Passes Over '' . It Gets that same meaning as the title

'' Hebrew '' - One Who Traverses and Ebra - arabic - Meaning '' To Traverse ; To Expound '' . ''Traversing '' As used in the person to whom the name was given first , Was Eber , Son of Salah , Son of Shem , Son of Noah , As found in ( Genesis 10 ; 21 )

Noah ( 2970 -2020 B,C,E, ) Son of Lamech and Kamilah ( Genesis 5 ; 29 ) , Shem Son of Noah and Namah , Genesis 5;32 )

 

The Book of Genesis , 10 ; 21 , Reavealed In 1512 B.C.E. Says ; Unto Shen also , the father of all the ( Children ) of Eber , the brother of Japheth the elder , even to him were children born  < King James Version ( Hebrew -Greek ) Keyword Study Bible >

 

The Book of Genesis , 5 ; 29 , Reavealed In 1512 B.C.E. Says ; And he call his name Noah saying , This same ( Shall Comfort ) us concerning our ( Work ) and ( Toil ) of our hands , became of the ( Ground ) which the Lord ( Hath Cursed ). < King James Version ( Hebrew -Greek ) Keyword Study Bible >

 

The Book of  Genesis 5;32, Reavealed In 1512 B.C.E. Says ; And Noah was five hundred years old ; and Noah begat ''Shem , Ham , and Japheth . < King James Version ( Hebrew -Greek ) Keyword Study Bible >

 

The name Eber , Also 'Abar , Ay-Ber and Heber, Means '' The Region Beyond '' from this you get the derivative of Eber , Hebrew , To mean '' On Who Crosse From Beyond One Region To Another '' Or Simply '' To Cross Over ( Genesis 14 ; 13 ) , And Thats Just what Hebrew means , '' To Cross Over ''

 

The Book of  Genesis 14 ; 13 , Reavealed In 1512 B.C.E. Says ; And there came one that had escaped , and ( Told ) Abram the ( Hebrew ) for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite , brother of Eshcol , and brother of Aner ; and these were ( Confedrate ) with Abram . < King James Version ( Hebrew -Greek ) Keyword Study Bible >

 

According to ( Deuteronomy 1512 ) , In the Strong's Concordance the word '' Hebrew '' Ibriy - aramic - , Is not the ( Name Of A Tribe or A People ) . Hebrew is just a title for what Abraham and ( His People Did ) '' Not what they were '' . The word ''Hebrew '' is merely describing an ( Act of a people or a person ; Moving from one side to another ) , And could apply to prople originally born on one side of the mississippi river , And deciding to relocate to the other sid of the mississippo river . In english they would be called '' Crossed Over '' 

 

The Book of Deuteronomy 1512 ,  Reavealed In 1512 B.C.E. Says ; And of thy brother , an Hebrew man , or Hebrew woman , be sold unto thee , and ( Serve ) thee six years ; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee .  < King James Version ( Hebrew -Greek ) Keyword Study Bible >

 

In the Canaanite language they would be called Hebrews , Which later was picked up and became their name . As you have seen , The name ''Hebrew '' Existed before Abraham with a man named Eber . People think that the word Hebrew stems from the word Hebron -aramic - ( Genesis 13 ; 18 ) , The name of a place in the Hills of Judah south of Jerusalem where Sarah died ( Genesis 23 ; 2 ) . However , If you check it out in the original language , You see it does not .

 

 

The Book of  Genesis 13 ; 18 , Reavealed In 1512 B.C.E. Says ; The Abram removed his tent , and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre , which is in Hebron , and built there an Altar unto the Lord . < King James Version ( Hebrew -Greek ) Keyword Study Bible >

 

 The Book of  Genesis 23 ;2  , Reavealed In 1512 B.C.E. Says ;  And Sarah ( Died ) in Kirjath-arba ; the same is Hebron in the land of Canaan ; and Abraham came to mourn for Sarah , and to weep for her . < King James Version ( Hebrew -Greek ) Keyword Study Bible >

 

 

To be continue in next post .

 

 

What is your source or sources for this post please? 

[RightKnowledge999]

 

First let me say that I have discuss this manytimes on other fourms , And I always get a diffrent answer .

 

<snip>

 

 The Book of  Genesis 23 ;2  , Reavealed In 1512 B.C.E. Says ;  And Sarah ( Died ) in Kirjath-arba ; the same is Hebron in the land of Canaan ; and Abraham came to mourn for Sarah , and to weep for her . < King James Version ( Hebrew -Greek ) Keyword Study Bible >

 

 

To be continue in next post .

 

 

What is your source or sources for this post please? 

 

 

 

 

To be continue in next post .

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

First let me say that I have discuss this manytimes on other fourms , And I always get a diffrent answer .

 

<snip>

 

 The Book of  Genesis 23 ;2  , Reavealed In 1512 B.C.E. Says ;  And Sarah ( Died ) in Kirjath-arba ; the same is Hebron in the land of Canaan ; and Abraham came to mourn for Sarah , and to weep for her . < King James Version ( Hebrew -Greek ) Keyword Study Bible >

 

 

To be continue in next post .

 

 

What is your source or sources for this post please? 

 

 

 

 

To be continue in next post .

 

 

 

Like I said I'm curious as to your sources. For better understanding those in the group Servant are part of the site administers team (Moderators). I am part of that team. This is a discussion forum and clarification is often requested. 

 

How you post is rather unique and must have a source for the knowledge presented correct? If so please list your sources. We do not allow plagiarism. Worthy is a ministry that just happens to have a discussion forum (WCF). Keep in mind that teaching is reserved for those in the Ministry (Platinums, Watchmen, Chat Servants, Servants, Etc.) We do encourage a good discussion though.   

If you have an issue with a Servant in the future please make use of the PM, email, or "report post" feature. 

 

I suggest you familiarize yourself with the WCF ToS (Terms of Service or Board Rules) you agreed to when joining...

 

No Plagiarism. You must have permission to post copy righted material. When you do have permission, all due attribution is to be posted as well. (Ex. 20:15, Lev 19:11)

 

If you have a problem with any of the Moderators or Chat admin, please keep it private. The moderation team serves this ministry on a voluntary basis. They are human beings and make mistakes. If you disagree with one of their decisions, make use of the PM system or email or the Repost Post button to get satisfaction. (Matt. 18:15)



This is a privately funded message board, we reserve the right to edit or remove any postings that we feel are detrimental to the fellowship on this board, or detrimental to the witness of the board, as we see fit.

 

God bless,

GE

[Guest shiloh357]

 

But if the Church is now God's people, His "Israel", that problem is overcome. His promises are fulfilled in Jesus, through His new creation people; they are eternally true and totally fulfilled.

 

The problem here is that you ared ignoring actual promises themselves and character of those promises.  

 

For example;  God makes promises based on an eternal covenant (Gen. 17:8-9) with Abraham.  Eternal means perpetual and unending.   God's land promises to Abraham and His physcial descendents is rooted in an eternal covenant.   That means that it cannot taken from them and transferred to someone else without God breaking His promise to Abraham.  There is nothing in the New Testament that claims that any of God's promises to Israel are transfered to the Church.  What the New Testament DOES says is that Gentiles are included by faith in what was promised to Israel.   It doesn't mention an entity known as "the Church" as being the beneficiary of anything.   I think we need to differentiate between "Gentiles' and "The Church."  Those are often seen as interchangable and they are not.

 

You have proven that your position is false because you cannot post any Scripture to support your position.  You simply argue a position that you have accepted uncritically as true.  You can't defend it because you don't know enough of the Bible to offer up a biblical defense which only highlights why no genuine follower of Jesus will accept your position as true or biblical.

[JohnD]

If this is replacement theology, it is God replacing the physical with the spiritual.

 

Romans 2:28-29 (NKJV)
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

 

Deuteronomy 10:16 (NKJV)
16 “Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer.

 

Deuteronomy 30:6 (NKJV)
6 “And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

 

Jeremiah 4:4 (NKJV)
4 Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, And take away the foreskins of your hearts, You men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, Lest My fury come forth like fire, And burn so that no one can quench it, Because of the evil of your doings.”

 

Jeremiah 9:26 (NKJV)
26 “Egypt, Judah, Edom, the people of Ammon, Moab, and all who are in the farthest corners, who dwell in the wilderness. For all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.”

 

Romans 9:6 (NKJV)
6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,

 

Romans 11:26 says "klal yisro'el will be saved."

 

Galatians 6:13-16 upbraids the physical and calls the new creature the Israel of God.

 

Now I fully agree this is not replacement (of Israel) theology it is replacement theology of the physical with the spiritual. Read Romans 2:28-29 again... then add Philippians 3:3 and John 4:21-24 and tell me I'm wrong that these things do not appear in scripture.

 

I am tired of two heresies that only have historical traditions of mankind acceptance as their only defense**...

 

1. that all believers are not all priests of God and a fictitious division of clergy / laity is foisted upon us

 

2. that Gentile believers in the Jewish Messiah are denied their Spiritual heritage because we were not born Jewish. 

 

Gentiles are second class citizens on earth (the Jews are the elect and chosen on earth). But no believer in Jesus is a second class citizen in heaven (chosen and elect of heaven).

 

** I must correct this... it is not their only defense. Gentile antisemitism denies the Jewishness of the faith of Spirit Israel for all who believe in the Jewish Messiah. And Jewish pride prevents them from acknowledging this truth.

So pride and prejudice are also part of the defense against this very biblical doctrine of inclusion (not replacement). And I am tired of seeing Gentile born believers denying their spiritual heritage or being denied it.

 

We are all the adopted children of Abraham to the Father.

 

Romans 9:3-4 (NKJV)
3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh,
4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises;

 

Didn't know that did ya?

 

The Father is not the Creator. The Son is. The Father's only creation is the body of the Son.

 

1 John 4:9 (NKJV)
9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.

 

John 1:14 (NKJV)
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

God the Word is the lone Creator of all things created in the beginning.

 

John 1:1-3 (NKJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

 

Colossians 1:13-16 (NKJV)
13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,
14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

 

Isaiah 44:24 (NKJV)
24 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;

 

Point being the Fatherhood of the Father of the Messiah is through adoption to the physical heir of Abraham pertaining to this life. Adam's Father (Luke 3:38) was the preincarnate Jesus. As pertaining to the eternal life we are all adopted children of the Father as spiritual heirs of Abraham.

 

Romans 8:15 (NKJV)
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

 

Romans 8:23 (NKJV)
23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

 

Ephesians 1:5 (NKJV)
5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

 

Romans 4:16 (NKJV)
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

 

Galatians 3:29 (NKJV)
29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

Galatians 3:24-29 (NKJV)
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

Galatians 6:13-16 (NKJV)
13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.
14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

 

So much for the claims that this is not in the Bible.

[Qnts2]

If this is replacement theology, it is God replacing the physical with the spiritual.

 

Romans 2:28-29 (NKJV)

28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;

29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

 

Deuteronomy 10:16 (NKJV)

16 “Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer.

 

Deuteronomy 30:6 (NKJV)

6 “And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

 

Jeremiah 4:4 (NKJV)

4 Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, And take away the foreskins of your hearts, You men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, Lest My fury come forth like fire, And burn so that no one can quench it, Because of the evil of your doings.”

 

Jeremiah 9:26 (NKJV)

26 “Egypt, Judah, Edom, the people of Ammon, Moab, and all who are in the farthest corners, who dwell in the wilderness. For all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.”

 

Romans 9:6 (NKJV)

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,

 

Romans 11:26 says "klal yisro'el will be saved."

 

Galatians 6:13-16 upbraids the physical and calls the new creature the Israel of God.

 

Now I fully agree this is not replacement (of Israel) theology it is replacement theology of the physical with the spiritual. Read Romans 2:28-29 again... then add Philippians 3:3 and John 4:21-24 and tell me I'm wrong that these things do not appear in scripture.

 

I am tired of two heresies that only have historical traditions of mankind acceptance as their only defense**...

 

1. that all believers are not all priests of God and a fictitious division of clergy / laity is foisted upon us

 

2. that Gentile believers in the Jewish Messiah are denied their Spiritual heritage because we were not born Jewish. 

 

Gentiles are second class citizens on earth (the Jews are the elect and chosen on earth). But no believer in Jesus is a second class citizen in heaven (chosen and elect of heaven).

 

** I must correct this... it is not their only defense. Gentile antisemitism denies the Jewishness of the faith of Spirit Israel for all who believe in the Jewish Messiah. And Jewish pride prevents them from acknowledging this truth.

So pride and prejudice are also part of the defense against this very biblical doctrine of inclusion (not replacement). And I am tired of seeing Gentile born believers denying their spiritual heritage or being denied it.

 

We are all the adopted children of Abraham to the Father.

 

Romans 9:3-4 (NKJV)

3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh,

4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises;

 

Didn't know that did ya?

 

The Father is not the Creator. The Son is. The Father's only creation is the body of the Son.

 

1 John 4:9 (NKJV)

9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.

 

John 1:14 (NKJV)

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

God the Word is the lone Creator of all things created in the beginning.

 

John 1:1-3 (NKJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

 

Colossians 1:13-16 (NKJV)

13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,

14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

 

Isaiah 44:24 (NKJV)

24 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;

 

Point being the Fatherhood of the Father of the Messiah is through adoption to the physical heir of Abraham pertaining to this life. Adam's Father (Luke 3:38) was the preincarnate Jesus. As pertaining to the eternal life we are all adopted children of the Father as spiritual heirs of Abraham.

 

Romans 8:15 (NKJV)

15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

 

Romans 8:23 (NKJV)

23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

 

Ephesians 1:5 (NKJV)

5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

 

Romans 4:16 (NKJV)

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

 

Galatians 3:29 (NKJV)

29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

Galatians 3:24-29 (NKJV)

24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

Galatians 6:13-16 (NKJV)

13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.

14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

 

So much for the claims that this is not in the Bible.

Except, God never replaced the physical people of Israel with a spiritual Israel. In the OT, God spoke of the Gentiles coming to the Messiah. Not that Gentiles become children of Israel/Jews. In order to fulfill the prophesies concerning the Gentiles, Gentiles are to remain Gentiles. By the way, Gentile means not Jewish/Israel. The theology which says that the Christians are now Israel and have replace the children of Israel, is called Replacement theology or supersessionism

 

Now to go thru the scriptures.

 

Romans 2:28-29 (NKJV)

28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;

29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

 

Circumcision of the heart is mentioned in the OT as something that all Jewish people were to seek. But in this verse it is a simple play on words. 

 

Jew in the orginal Hebrew means praised or a praiser of God. There are verses in the NT which become clearer if the Hebrew transliterated word is actually translated, so I will simply translate Jew into English in the verse, and all becomes clear.

 

28 For he is not a praiser of God who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;

29 but he is a praiser of God who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

 

Clearly the verse is about a true praiser of God who praise is not from men but from God, and that doesn't have anything to do with becoming Jewish.

 

These next verses simply say that Jewish people should seek a circumcised heart. They do not say that a person with a circumcised heart is Jewish. Clearly not all Jewish people have a circumcised heart. But Jewish males do have a ritually physical circumcision which is a requirement to be Jewish. The NT tells Gentiles not to be circumcised, which means Gentiles are not to become Jewish. Again this is prophetically important.

 

Deuteronomy 10:16 (NKJV)

16 “Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer.

 

Deuteronomy 30:6 (NKJV)

6 “And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

 

Jeremiah 4:4 (NKJV)

4 Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, And take away the foreskins of your hearts, You men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, Lest My fury come forth like fire, And burn so that no one can quench it, Because of the evil of your doings.”

 

Jeremiah 9:26 (NKJV)

26 “Egypt, Judah, Edom, the people of Ammon, Moab, and all who are in the farthest corners, who dwell in the wilderness. For all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.”

 

The following verse states that not all of Israel is Israel, but does not state that Gentiles who believe on Jesus become Israel, so it does not support replacement theology. Romans is alternately talking to Jewish believers and Gentile believers. In Romans 9, it is stating that not all of Israel are counted to receive the promises of Israel concerning the Messiah. Actually Romans 9 goes to great lengths to explain that the spiritual promise is thru Abraham, and not all natural descendents of Abraham will be saved. Israel are descendents of Jacob, but the spiritual promise is thru Abraham and believers are called children of Abraham, not Jacob.

 

Romans 9:6 (NKJV)

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,

 

I am out of time so will have to continue this later. But I do want to say that Replacement theology has done a lot of damage to the reputation of the church among the Jewish people, as it has beened used thru history to persecute the Jewish people. As a Messianic Jew, all Messianic Jews reject replacement theology, and there are many doctrinal papers written by Messianic Jews renouncing the error of Replacement theology.  

[Qnts2]

 

I am tired of two heresies that only have historical traditions of mankind acceptance as their only defense**...

 

1. that all believers are not all priests of God and a fictitious division of clergy / laity is foisted upon us

 

2. that Gentile believers in the Jewish Messiah are denied their Spiritual heritage because we were not born Jewish. 

 

Gentiles are second class citizens on earth (the Jews are the elect and chosen on earth). But no believer in Jesus is a second class citizen in heaven (chosen and elect of heaven).

 

** I must correct this... it is not their only defense. Gentile antisemitism denies the Jewishness of the faith of Spirit Israel for all who believe in the Jewish Messiah. And Jewish pride prevents them from acknowledging this truth.

So pride and prejudice are also part of the defense against this very biblical doctrine of inclusion (not replacement). And I am tired of seeing Gentile born believers denying their spiritual heritage or being denied it.

 

We are all the adopted children of Abraham to the Father.

 

 

Rather then go thru the verses, I want to respond to this section, as this section is most important. 

 

That God chose the Jewish people does not mean any superiority of the children of Israel. Scripture says that God chose Abraham because of his faith, and from there the descendent of Abraham to receive the promise was the younger (lesser) child, and the descendant of Isaac was again the younger child, Jacob. God says that he didn't choose the Jewish people because they were great in number, or stronger, but rather they were a smaller group of people and weak. Why did God chose a smaller and weaker people? So that when God accomplished what He did, it was clear that God did it and only God gets the glory.

 

So, it is no superior aspect of the Jewish people which caused God to choose them.

 

In the NT, there is no such thing as first class people or second class people. All people must come to be saved the same way. And once saved, we all receive the better covenant, and the same wonderful blessing. So, in terms of salvation, there is no difference between Jew or Gentile, male or female, bond or free.

 

To believe that Gentiles are second class citizens on earth is a gross misunderstanding of scriptures, and a jealousy of the children of Israel. To think one has to be a 'spiritual child of Israel' to become a 'first class citizen', is an issue because it is not scriptural. Scripture says, God is no respecter of persons, so God does not have first and second class citizens.  

 

To say that Gentiles are not children of Israel is simply a fact. To say that Gentiles/non-Jews are not Jewish, is simply a fact. The is no anti-Gentile prejudice to that statement. Such an accusation is ridiculous, but it is born out of a jealousy, where somehow Jewish people are perceived as superior, not that Jewish people see themselves as superior, but that someone else sees them as superior because God chose them, the weaker and smaller people, for His purposes.

[JohnD]

This has a particular meaning to our Jewish brethren, for the Jewish Temple will be rebuilt and the sacrificial system will be reestablished but not to honor the God of the Bible. For the Messiah said:

 

John 5:43 (NASB95)
43 “I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him.

 

The word [ IF ] is the word ean in Greek which should be rendered "though" which fits in with the prophecies about the false messiah who will claim to be god above every god...

 

Yeshua the true Messiah came in the humble humility the prophets foretold: “I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; THOUGH another comes in his own name, you will receive him."

 

The Jewish people and the whole world in the end will be misled by the false messiah. And only those who believe in Yeshua the true Messiah will be able to resist the signs the false messiah will show to "prove" his authenticity as the true messiah. Some of the evidence may even be scientific. 

 

Hear me out.

 

The Bible teaches that haSatan entered into (possessed) one man. If the cumulative verses on the subject in the Bible are understood correctly fallen angels are permitted to roam the earth and until the war in heaven where they were kicked out of heaven they had some limited access to heaven. Then there's:

 

Jude 6 (NASB95)
6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,

 

This cannot refer to their original downfall. Otherwise all fallen angels would be in the abyss since before the creation of the earth. This can only refer to possession (of human or animal hosts). Meaning the demon who does so is subject to going straight to the abyss either when the host dies or the demon is exorcised from that host.

 

So for Lucifer to do this it was a drastic of desperation / go for broke to (in his mind) defeat God by killing the Messiah... so he entered Judas Iscariot son of Simon.  Only, at some point during the trials and beatings of our Lord, Lucifer realized all was going according to God's plan. And the so-called remorse of Judas was Satan within trying to undo what he had done... to stop the crucifixion and (in his mind) defeat God by preventing the killing of the Messiah. 

 

But he'd done too good a job corrupting the priests and pharisees who rejected his retraction of evidence against Yeshua, and he threw the betrayal money at them and went and hanged himself. No doubt the host Judah trying to end rage of the demon within. Consider now one of the most controversial texts in scripture:

 

 

Revelation 20 (NASB95)
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

What makes this controversial is the time frame of 1,000 years is written in the Greek so that it could imply a literal 999+1 years... but more than likely it simply meant a long period of time more than 1,000 years. 

 

The "thousand" years are about a time when the believers in Messiah reign with him. 1 Peter 2:3-9 indicates we are a royal priesthood now and Hebrews 1:3, 8:1, 10:12, 12:2,Revelation 5:1, 5:7 all state that Yeshua is currently on the throne of the Father reigning from heaven. And after he returns he will return the throne to the Father (1 Corinthians 15:24-25).

 

So when else can this "millennial reign" be, but now? Ever since the Lord of glory died on the cross we have been in the kingdom of God who believe in his Son and raised him from the dead.

 

The scenario when that "thousand years" is completed and Satan is released from prison... sounds a lot like the Armageddon campaign. Because it is the same Armageddon campaign. As is customary with Middle Eastern expressionism and story telling and reporting, the single event is often told several times in several ways often an overview that later comes back to fill in the details. Several historic points are mentioned in Revelation (the Apocalypse / the Unveiling) in what a chronologically thinking Western mind would think is unnecessary digression after digression but the Eastern mind sees as adding clues and insights and pieces to the puzzle unfolding before their eyes. 

 

Think of it. If this is true that Satan has been imprisoned in the abyss since Judas Iscariot hanged himself and (in the world of the Apostle Peter "went to his own place." Acts 1:25)... to be loosed for a short season (7 years) and to be able to show scientifically that he lived 2,000 years ago through DNA or blood content... Revelation 13 says the whole world wonders after the beast... that's a lot to convince (atheists, skeptics, false religionists). 

 

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)
27 And he shall confirm THE COVENANT with MANY for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

"The covenant" in Daniel is often spoken of as "the holy covenant" and refers to the Old Covenant which the True Messiah fulfilled and superseded with the New Covenant. Again... he warned that the Jews would receive him who comes in his own name. And the warning in Matthew 24 about fleeing on the Sabbath would only apply to a Jew who saw no harm in the abomination of desolation approaching the Temple and the Holiest Place to sit on the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant and claim to be God... meaning the beast caused those Jews to believe he was the real deal and unless he was himself  Jew and went about this as a Jewish messiah he would convince no one.

 

This is the great deception the lie in 2 Thessalonians 2:11. 

 

And this is all the more reason we must strive to win over as many of our Jewish brothers and sisters as we can before all this comes about.