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JohnD last won the day on July 13 2015

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  1. I agree with both missmuffet and maryjayne on this subject. We must not back down from the truth, but we must also take care not to clobber our 'victim' with truth either. If you will go to my original response to K9Buck you will see that I pointed out there are enough heresies in every denomination to send everyone to hell a dozen times. The main mission / main goal is to get at the Truth. I also showed the biblical way (which is the only way) to do so... ALL else is second hand / hearsay (heresy) evidence... let's get it rather from the horse's mouth (the Holy Spirit who wrote the Bible). THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM 2 Peter 1:20–21 (KJV) 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. This one point (that we are to know first) is overlooked by most. The Holy Spirit wrote the Bible, he Holy Spirit interprets the Bible. It matters not how far up the theological ladder one climbs if it is the wrong ladder. Matthew 7:21–23 (AV) 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. If there is anything in this life we must be absolutely certain about, it's that we believe in the genuine Jesus. Jesus himself warned of false Christs and false prophets (Matthew 24:24). But I fear the most damning passage is: Mark 7:7–13 (AV) 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: 11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. Believing in the genuine Jesus does matter. A false Jesus cannot save. 2 Corinthians 11:3–4 (AV) 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. Paul was ridiculing their toleration of these. In another epistle he cursed the teachers of these: Galatians 1:8–9 (AV) 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. How can we be certain we believe the genuine gospel? The Holy Spirit interpreted scriptures. And how can we be certain what we believe in the Holy Spirit is actually him? 1 John 4:1 (NASB) 1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. Great. How do we do that? The scriptures: Acts 17:11 (NIV) 11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. The Thessalonians have the recorded admonition of Paul: 1 Thessalonians 5:21 (AV) 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. But, it was the Bereans that apparently applied this. Further keys in scripture to unlocking God's Word are: Proverbs 25:2 (NIV) 2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings. Deuteronomy 29:29 (NIV) 29 The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law. Isaiah 28:9–13 (AV) 9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
  2. "terms used by nearly every Christian on the planet..." doesn't make them accurate if the are untrue. The truth is the truth, even if no one on planet Earth believes it. Not my definition. I am sincerely amazed how I can quote the scripture, print it out for you and nearly everyone on the planet to READ FOR THEMSELVES... and you come off with this nonsense; "you use your own definition..." Hebrews 9:16–17 (NIV84) 16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. Hebrews 9:16–17 (NASB95) 16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. 17 For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. Hebrews 9:16–17 (AV) 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. The divisions of the Bible into verses, chapters, books and regions (New Testament / Old Testament.... Law, Writings, Prophets) are not divinely inspired (which is why we often have a verse change or chapter break in the middle of a thought or setting). PLUS! If you actually investigate things like the Lord's Prayer, and Christ's warning against lust... etc. you will see in them OLD Testament language... "for if you do not forgive others, your Heavenly Father will not forgive you..." That's not John 3:16-18 "if your eye causes you to sin pluck it out for it is better to enter life with one eye than hell with both eyes..." That's not Ephesians 2:8-10 Putting the Testament divide of NEW / OLD between Malachi 4 and Matthew 1 rather than at the cross where the BIBLE says it belongs makes Christianity confusing / contradictory: "By Grace not by works you have been saved..." but we are to forgive everyone, cut off body parts, tithe, never be angry... in other words keep the Law Acts 15:6–11 (AV) 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. How could such rudimentary truth have escaped your noticed that you accuse me of "behavior you've come across before?"
  3. The same old testament disciples of Jesus / the new testament apostles of Jesus. The New Testament (New Covenant) does not begin at Matthew 1. Hebrews 9:16–17 (AV) 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Everything up to the cross of Christ was OLD Testament.
  4. The only expectations we can have is regarding ourselves only. And even then we fail, disappoint, even betray. The original pattern (as you call it) IS in fact to be our goal... but we will never achieve it. However, in the striving towards it we will spare God, ourselves, and others MUCH grief. This life, aside from God who is good, is all about hoping for the least worst in all other things. Happy are those who realize this.
  5. Now I take comfort in this passage about all sin... in that we cannot sin away our salvation. If drastic enough measures are required... he will invoke 1 Corinthians 5:5 to keep us saved. It also scares the @#*% out of me in that accomplishing this God doesn't just strike us dead or take us out like Elijah or Enoch but turns us over to the Arch Enemy who will spare nothing to make it as painful an experience as he can manage.
  6. Granted. Example: 1 Chronicles 22 (AV) 7 And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the LORD my God: 8 But the word of the LORD came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight. 9 Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. 10 He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever. 11 Now, my son, the LORD be with thee; and prosper thou, and build the house of the LORD thy God, as he hath said of thee. God didn't tell David this. David [said] God did. And the scriptures reflect what David said as a mater of historic record of what he said. Echoed in 1 Chronicles 28 as well. What God actually said was: 2 Samuel 7:12–13 (AV) 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. Translated by: Zechariah 6:12–13 (AV) 12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: 13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both. And the Temple he builds is: 1 Corinthians 3:16 (AV) 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? My question to you is, was the Apostle John speaking like David in that he claimed Jesus loved him when in fact Jesus didn't love him? Is that what you are saying?
  7. So... John 3:16-18, Ephesians 2:8-10, Romans 8... virtually the entire Bible means nothing to you? "I think" therefore it must be true. The Bible does mention lesser degrees of punishment (and reward for that matter) in both heaven and hell if that's what you are referring to. But the ones in hell are still... in hell.
  8. The Old Testament disciples were in hot competition. The New Testament Apostles were not. If God had a problem with what John wrote at any part, would he not have strickened it from Holy Writ?
  9. Grace is found everywhere in scripture. Even prophetically in the disciples' prayer (as in most of the Old Testament). It was not taught / uttered under the Grace of the New Covenant (Testament) because it hadn't happened yet. Hebrews 9:16–17 (AV) 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Christ was not even on the cross until much later. And again... as I said in my post above the language of the prayer itself and Jesus' own commentary in Matthew 6:14-15 and Mark 11:26 which is under Old Testament Law not New Testament Grace.
  10. 1 Corinthians 5 (AV) 1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
  11. There are a lot of false Christians in the world. And no doubt most of them believe they are Christians. But ALL Christians are still human beings in this life. We must continually contend with the flesh (our sin nature) until we die or Jesus returns when we will be perfected (our bodies changed). Be thankful when Christians don't treat you badly. We live in the world not of bests but of least worsts... God alone is good.
  12. Christianity is a faith, a belief in the Lord Jesus Christ (saving us from hell and giving us life and a relationship with God). It is not a religion of works and rituals and whether or not you are sweet to everyone.
  13. akin to getting the "day lights" knocked out of us. Yeah, I can see that.
  14. he who is of a merry heart has a continual feast (the proverb says)
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