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JohnD last won the day on July 13 2015

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  1. Rusty please explain why you believe all babies go to heaven.
  2. 1 Timothy 4:10 (NIV84) 10 (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe. 1 John 2:2 (NIV84) 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. John 3:16–18 (NIV84) 16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. Ephesians 2:8–10 (NIV84) 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Belief / faith only activates our pre-paid account. So to speak.
  3. James 5:1–6 (NIV84) 1 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. 2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you.
  4. When in doubt, do what Jesus did.
  5. Death still reigned. In other words, no pre-cross accreditation either. So before the Law which would have the affect on unbelievers as to what degree of hell they will spend eternity... ...there will be some shallow dwellers that deserve to be deep dwellers but because there was no Law in place... Don't try to rationalize salvation out of the fact that there was not an established written Law at the time. John 3:16-18 states only belief (baptism of the Holy Ghost) / unbelief (baptism by fire).
  6. Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this thread was about Pedestrians... never mind, I'm just crossing at the intersection. Ta ta
  7. I've heard many legalistic arguments. How people were not guilty of the Law because the Law had not been given... yet they all died. Sometimes we get so bogged down in the details we lose perspective of what's the point? John 3:16–18 (AV) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. So the atheists of which you speak (should they die in their unbelief) will exist in a lesser depth of hell. Kind of renders that sort of thing academic does it not?
  8. This is a praise report. Should I have posted it there?
  9. If this offended you, I am sorry. But to assume all babies go to heaven who die in infancy must be aware of the logical conclusions. The bible says: John 3:16–18 (AV) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. You say "reject" as if one must have some guaranteed opportunity to accept or reject. Sir, the Bible says believe / unbelief. And that the condemnation is ALREADY determined / established / true. It would be more logical to say all babies don't go to heaven if they die before believing in Jesus Christ. BUT there's more to it than that!!! God foreknew all who would believe. The same way he provided for the believers before the cross he has provided for people who will believe but who die before they believe... If I offended you (say you lost a baby) I am sorry I was not minimizing your grief. I don't know how people can get through such a tragedy! But take heart! They have just as much chance of being a believer as they would have had they survived. Don't you see? God's biblical assurances are far better than people's mantras or slogans or wishful thinking. Romans 8:29 (AV) 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Sir, I hope you see there is a much more solid foundation in God's way than man's. My absurd example about abortion was hopefully so absurd everyone would know that it was intended to prove the point that ALL babies who die cannot possibly go to heaven but the Omniscient God knew before time began who would believe in his dear Son and that really matters to him!!!!!!!! 1 Corinthians 2:7 2 Timothy 1:9 Titus 1:2 Depending on which translation you use all speak of God figuring things out before time began.
  10. I am so thankful to the Lord for his love and answering your prayers and your prayers!!!!!!! I know I am regularly in her asking for prayer... just thought I'd share this with you... Today the engine light on our KIA came on. With my teeth $ my beloved wife's shingles $ needing two new tires $ to pass inspection, the land lady going up on the rent $ All of which were answered by God and prayer... I had already signed up to work extra hours to take care of my family (and I feel very blessed and not burdened at all about it) The light came on... For some reason I had a peace about it. I tell my beloved wife the Lord has always taken care of us. And he always will. Guess I started listening to myself. I was not worried. And I am a classical worry wart. Went to Walmart then to Auto Zone then to Classic Auto repair... the guy most would worry would take most advantage $$$ right? No. He was a wonderful honest man who had his assistant look over everything and told us the engine lights will come on and stay on til a mechanic turns it off. He told us where we could get some $30 strong injector fluid in town to put in a full tank of gas, and to come see him again if the light comes back on and he'd turn it off for free til the gas tank rank out and if it comes on again then there's a problem. What a wonderful man! His name is Felipe (I encourage prayer for men like him). My beloved and I had a wonderful visit with him for well over an hour after that. We were praising God and thanking him the rest of the day.
  11. Doesn't it make much more sense that God knew before time began who would and who would not believe? Regardless if they ever heard the Gospel... or lived long enough to decide to believe... Think about it... Even with Moses and Abraham and David who lived before the cross he saved (in Abraham's Bosom til the cross opened heaven for them). Even before he could give them access to heaven, he knew who would believe and made it so he could save them once Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice on the cross.
  12. Then why is abortion wrong? Better we should all have died in infancy that to risk eternal hell, if this is true. Paul said if he could wish himself accursed to save his unbelieving Jewish people the solution would have been simple, open an abortion clinic. Maybe that would send him to hell but think of all the babies he saved from rejecting the Messiah... Do you see what's wrong with this?
  13. Only if they would have believed in the Lord Jesus Christ. God knows who will believe in his Son. Even if they never make it to that opportunity in life. Conversely, he will not grant eternal life to a baby he knows will never believe in Jesus just because he was a baby when he died. The whole doctrine of all babies going to heaven is human reasoning trying to resolve what it cannot get its head around... ...forgetting the Omniscient mind of God solves everything. Also, since we are on the subject of error in the OP question "they will go to heaven as all innocent children do" the tribulation period is a 7 year period divided in two 3.5 year tribulations (spoken of many times in many ways in scripture): time, times, plus 1/2 a time 42 months 1260 days Christians will be the target of the world in tribulation #1 blamed for everything that has gone wrong since the dawn of time to Mr. Whiffle squeezing the Charmin. Smoking out Christians is what 666 is all about. Christians are the one people who won't take the mark. Look for people who don't got da mark and you got your next victim (to behead). Once Christians are out of the devil's way, then he turns his sights on Jews. The world will join him in a persecution like they have never known. Armies from around the world will converge in the staging ground of the valley of Megiddo and start trudging down Israel's throat from the north. This will be to get Israel to do the unthinkable... as a last resort, mind you... to call upon the name of Jesus of Nazareth. Because nothing else has worked. Then Jesus will hear from heaven and come touching down on Mt Olivet splitting it in two causing shock waves that "cause the mountains to clap." Where that indignant self righteous 200 million man army will have staged... now ground to blood and gore. But this is apparently what it will take to get all Israel to believe in their Messiah. And that is what the great tribulation is for. Those given to having babies at the time will be the ones not scrambling for their lives. Without the mark of the beast you can't buy or sell or work or rent or pay mortgage, or have a car or health insurance or food or clothes. Dumpster diving will be either traps or have live feed video that can catch believers scrounging for their lives. I doubt there will be a lot of baby-making going on at the time (except for those who accept the mark of the beast). Revelation 14:11 (AV) 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Revelation 19:20 (AV) 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
  14. Okay. Guess that solved that. Huh huh huh ← Herman Munster laugh
  15. Knowing this first no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. This is how the entirety of scripture came to be. Know this first! Before you try to figure out what doctrine is even true. Or even who or what the Savior is! Because only the rightly interpreted Bible has the true definition of who and what he is! No prophecy of the scripture All scripture was prophetically given. And when you realize the word "prophecy" does not just mean future-telling or fortune telling but rather it is the profession (professing) of truth in whatever form or time frame it is speaking. "No prophecy of scripture" is as to say "no portion of scripture." Is of any private interpretation. "Private" means any one or any group or any nation other than the one who wrote the thing. This is misused by Church groups, denominations, even cults to discourage individuals from using their Bibles to check out those cults, denominations, Church groups for truthfulness or the accuracy of their teachings. Totally contrary to what the Bible teaches the individual to do: 1 Thessalonians 5:21 (AV) 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 1 John 4:1 (AV) 1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Acts 17:11 (AV) 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 2 Timothy 3:16–17 (AV) 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Verses that begin with: 2 Peter 1:20–21 (AV) 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: A very important underlying theme of scripture is the contrast of the will and the wisdom of man to that of God. Proverbs 14:12 and Proverbs 16:25 (AV) 12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Isaiah 55:9 (AV) 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. An overlooked point Jesus was making in Matthew 16:13-23 is this very contrast. Matthew 16:13–23 (AV) 13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. 21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Human wisdom, ways, thoughts, rationale, interpretations, etc. are not from God but are ultimately... from... the devil. Most folks who believe people are generally good or average have a hard time swallowing this. They will cite all the magnificent things people can sometimes do for one another (and selflessly). Or they will cite the accomplishments of civilization. Dare I say it? Some will cite America as proof that there are some "good people" in the world. Alexis De Tocqueville wrote as much about America. But the Bible teaches otherwise. And until we accept it... we are always beginning from a false premise. Always. Romans 3:10–12 (AV) 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. People have moments of kindness. But out nature is evil. And though we are blood bought children of God the all things that are new and old things are passed away is about how we are counted as righteous (though we are not righteous). How the righteousness of Jesus Christ is imputed into our account even before we see death or are translated (raptured). How we are already filled and indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God and have the option to choose his leading in our hearts... though we sometimes don't... sometimes... okay, often we don't. Which is sad. None of that existed in humanity prior to the cross. Still, the Holy Spirit moved upon several men who submitted to God in the past to accomplish many mighty and miraculous things. The inspiration of the Holy Spirit say on Moses, or Job, or David, or Isaiah for examples is nothing less than miraculous. They spoke in their own words but those words were given them by the Holy Spirit. NOW... How could we trust anything so precious and so precise as our salvation / eternal fate to mere mortal men? How can we trust anything so important as the unified Body Of Christ and its mission to evangelize the whole world in every generation to anyone less that the Holy Spirit of God Almighty?