GOOD EFFECTS of WALKING WITH GOD...

[jc49]

GENESIS

Chapter 5:

"18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:

19

And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.

21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:

22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:

24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him."

:il: I love ENOCH,I do,I do,I do ,WHY? because he walked with....G O D,Hallelujah!!!

I've noticed that genesis says 2 times that he walked with God....in verse 22 and in verse 24! Why?

I believe that The Holy Spirit wants underline this walking with God...there is a great encouragement there,for me and you,for us....

You see, it doesn't say that Enoch was a theologian,or an interpreter of end times doctrines to his own liking,to justify his own opinion....Enoch WALKED with GOD!

Praise The LORD ,saints!!!

His was a faith walk,and the results of his faith walk? ....v24..."and he was not not;,for GOD took him"!!!

PRAISE THE LORD!!!

Hebrews 11:5 :

"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."

NOW!,do you see that The Holy Spirit expands the TRUTH of Enoch walk?

BY FAITH he was TRANSLATED!!!that he should not see death......

Does this bring to your attention that the born again believers in Christ BEFORE JUDGMENT( THE GREAT TRIBULATION) will be TRANSLATED too?(RAPTURED?)

He,(Enoch) pleased GOD,I love it,how? BY FAITH!!!It is written....I honestly care little about the modern professors and scholars say about the end times...I go to THE BOOK!!!,The BOOK tells me that BY FAITH I can please GOD!!! and if so happens that I will be alive at the time appointed by GOD TO TRANSLATE HIS CHURCH (God knows if I'll be alive,so I am resting on HIM)well,I'll go UP with the rest of the BODY ,BEFORE the JUDGMENT,cause we must remember that AFTER ENOCH'S TRANSLATION.....THE FLOOD CAME!!!!!!

Now,we know from the Book that He went up but Noah and his family went in the ark.....

Enoch I believe is a type of the CHURCH that gets RAPTURED,TRANS-LATED BEFORE the TRIBULATION and Noah and his family( 8 people in all) a figure or type of ISRAEL REMNANT being preserved in the ARK( JESUS) DURING the great tribulation or Jacob's trouble.....

ENOCH was a prophet...

Jude "

"14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts..."

Does Enoch prophesies that the JUDGMENT of GOD will fall on the believers? on the CHURCH of GOD?no really,READ IT for yourself,please...He comes to execute judgment on the UNGODLY(mark how namany times the word UNGODLY is there)

How in the world the believers have been caught in this "the church will go through the great tribulation?"

This doctrine seems to me to offend THE FATHERLY NATURE of GOD,HE is THE PERFECT FATHER and will translate HIS children ,WALKING BY FAITH with HIM,just like translated ENOCH...but our FATHER,will judge heavily THE UNGODLY!!!!

Please note that Enoch is quoted in Genesis,Hebrews,and Jude and he is a prophet.....THE TRUE CHURCH of GOD IS A PROPHET that HAS 66 books filled with PROPHECY...Study the Scriptures and DON'T FALL for THE FALLACY of the TRIBULATION SAINTS WANNABES!!!

Do we walk by faith or by vision(sight?)....Well,if you are TRULY BORN AGAIN and SPIRIT FILLED you know the answer!!!

M A R A N A T H A!!!!!!

[Old Timer]

Good post, jc!

However, as to the Rapture, unfortunately you will learn that nobody on this board ever changes their mind no matter how strong the Bibical example.

[Guest idied2]

Hello jc49

What do you make of this scripture? truely.

Jeremiah 25:

30 "Therefore prophesy against them all these words, and say to them: 'The Lord will roar from on high, And utter His voice from His holy habitation; He will roar mightily against His fold. He will give a shout, as those who tread the grapes, Against all the inhabitants of the earth.

31 A noise will come to the ends of the earth-- For the Lord has a controversy with the nations; He will plead His case with all flesh. He will give those who are wicked to the sword,' says the Lord."

32 Thus says the Lord of hosts: "Behold, disaster shall go forth From nation to nation, And a great whirlwind shall be raised up From the farthest parts of the earth.

33 And at that day the slain of the Lord shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried; they shall become refuse on the ground.

34 "Wail, shepherds, and cry! Roll about in the ashes, You leaders of the flock! For the days of your slaughter and your dispersions are fulfilled; You shall fall like a precious vessel.

35 And the shepherds will have no way to flee, Nor the leaders of the flock to escape.36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, And a wailing of the leaders to the flock will be heard. For the Lord has plundered their pasture,

37 And the peaceful dwellings are cut down Because of the fierce anger of the Lord.

Some will not see the LIGHT even to the END.

AND THIS ONE.

Da 12:7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.

AND THIS ONE.

Deuteronomy 32

32:36

"For the Lord will judge His people And have compassion on His servants, When He sees that their power is gone, And there is no one remaining, bond or free.

32:37

He will say: 'Where are their gods, The rock in which they sought refuge?

32:38

Who ate the fat of their sacrifices, And drank the wine of their drink offering? Let them rise and help you, And be your refuge.

32:39

'Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.

32:40

For I raise My hand to heaven, And say, "As I live forever,

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[jc49]

Good post, jc!

However, as to the Rapture, unfortunately you will learn that nobody on this board ever changes their mind no matter how strong the Bibical example.

Dear OLD TIMER,

I am glad you believe the same...you know what?I never read not a line of the left behind series..never read any books on the subject....I remember as a young believer(32 years ago now!)I read an old book by Clarence Larking with the charts and all,ok.It belonged to my pastor who went with the Lord(bless His soul)and his wife gave it to me...and I just adored those studies...I mean,I dream of the rapture,the thought of it gives me so much hope in this hopeless age we are living in!

I just DON'T GET IT how some christians are looking for the antichrist and spotting him here and there..and the mark of the beast etc...

Also,I think that may be they just don't get that during the great Trib it is going to be so much worst than now,and now it is bad!!!

Don't know,it looks like they want to be some kind of martyrs ,may be they want to show great courage for Jesus,like the first christians that Nero and Caligula were giving to the lions or burning on crosses on the Via Appia,by night,to light up the road!

I know that unless for HIS GRACE,I just couldn't face life as it is now,no,not even another day..I hate this world,I mean it brother,I would go anytime,I am so sick of all this killing,terror,sufference and unbelief in JESUS,sooooo very sick,of this shallow materialistic society...and also so sick of all this so called"church" business...I mean..praise The Lord,Jesus is building HIS CHURCH and the gates of hell will not prevail,but MUST BE HIS CHURCH!!!All this "religiosity",all this quoting scriptures and shooting arrows like they are the only true depository of truth....and despising those who simply believe in Jesus and His provision for the ages....I just DON'T TRUST MYSELF,imagine if I could trust all this denominations....

Well,I guess I better stop here,LOVE IN HIM

[jc49]

Hello jc49

What do you make of this scripture? truely.

Jeremiah 25:

30 "Therefore prophesy against them all these words, and say to them: 'The Lord will roar from on high, And utter His voice from His holy habitation; He will roar mightily against His fold. He will give a shout, as those who tread the grapes, Against all the inhabitants of the earth.

31 A noise will come to the ends of the earth-- For the Lord has a controversy with the nations; He will plead His case with all flesh. He will give those who are wicked to the sword,' says the Lord."

32 Thus says the Lord of hosts: "Behold, disaster shall go forth From nation to nation, And a great whirlwind shall be raised up From the farthest parts of the earth.

33 And at that day the slain of the Lord shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried; they shall become refuse on the ground.

34 "Wail, shepherds, and cry! Roll about in the ashes, You leaders of the flock! For the days of your slaughter and your dispersions are fulfilled; You shall fall like a precious vessel.

35 And the shepherds will have no way to flee, Nor the leaders of the flock to escape.36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, And a wailing of the leaders to the flock will be heard. For the Lord has plundered their pasture,

37 And the peaceful dwellings are cut down Because of the fierce anger of the Lord.

Some will not see the LIGHT even to the END.

AND THIS ONE.

Da 12:7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.

AND THIS ONE.

Deuteronomy 32

32:36

"For the Lord will judge His people And have compassion on His servants, When He sees that their power is gone, And there is no one remaining, bond or free.

32:37

He will say: 'Where are their gods, The rock in which they sought refuge?

32:38

Who ate the fat of their sacrifices, And drank the wine of their drink offering? Let them rise and help you, And be your refuge.

32:39

'Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.

32:40

For I raise My hand to heaven, And say, "As I live forever,

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

God bless you brother,if you cannot see that He is talking of Israel...I mean it is plain...

by the way,LOVE IN JESUS!!

M A R A N A T H A !!!

[Guest idied2]

Oh Yea. The slaughter of the first Church. How much better are we Than them? But they allready must have been raptured or something. And being fed to the lions and killed in the roman games that must be false history. Or maybe they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

How can the HEAD be crusified without the body?

33 And at that day the slain of the Lord shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried; they shall become refuse on the ground.

When in History has The LORD Spread bodies accross the face of the earth. ANd them not be burried?

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Guest idied2]

This doctrine seems to me to offend THE FATHERLY NATURE of GOD,HE is THE PERFECT FATHER and will translate HIS children ,WALKING BY FAITH with HIM,just like translated ENOCH...but our FATHER,will judge heavily THE UNGODLY!!!!

This statement is an offence. That if HE don't do it the way you supose then HE is not the perfect FATHER. You missed it somewhere. THe LORD don't humble HIMSELF to enter into your life. You must die to the flesh and enter into the Life that is CHRIST.

HIS will be done.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[jc49]

This doctrine seems to me to offend THE FATHERLY NATURE of GOD,HE is THE PERFECT FATHER and will translate HIS children ,WALKING BY FAITH with HIM,just like translated ENOCH...but our FATHER,will judge heavily THE UNGODLY!!!!

This statement is an offence. That if HE don't do it the way you supose then HE is not the perfect FATHER. You missed it somewhere. THe LORD don't humble HIMSELF to enter into your life. You must die to the flesh and enter into the Life that is CHRIST.

HIS will be done.

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

brother,

i am italian and I don't have agood control of the english,sorry,what I mean is that God as a Father(jesus revealed Him to us) has clearly stated that by believing in Him we are not appointed to wrath but to salvation thanks to Jesus...I wouldn't dare to discuss or object His ways,in fact His ways are beyond my puny intellect,I just go according to what I read in the Book,and if He would say that the believer in Jesus must go in the great Trib,well I couldn't object His doing,He IS PERFECT,ok?What I mean,is that I see just the opposite.

In the time of Rome many have been martyrs(testimonies,witnesses,cause marturion in greek means witness) and have been killed and tortured by the pagan roman emperors,in fact many christians have suffered immensely and have been killed then and also during the centuries,by the hand of the great inquisition and even heavily tortured and massacred by popes and the roman catholic church..it is history,can be proven,as well during the soviet empire,as well now many christians in muslim countries are killed and persecuted in various part of this sin cursed planet..ok?

I don't feel second class christian cause I haven't been killed for my faith,God has spared me for that until now,and if I would be put to the test I know I wouldn't be able to withstand the trial,I know for sure that I would need a special impartation of His grace,cause by nature I ma not a corageous type,just to be honest,but WITH GOD ALL IS POSSIBLE....so far from me to criticize or put down any man or woman that has given their life for Jesus...I just don't see in the book that the church will go in thaat very unique 7 years period called the great Tribulation,which in fact in Jeremiah is called Jacob's trouble...and in revelation the hour of temptation that will come on the planet...I see that will be atime of great testing for Israel and the world..not for the church,which as you know was a mystery in the old testament and has been revealed to Paul etc..

I know for sure that my personaal salvation is BY GRACE,HIS GRACE(totally undeserved gift)TROUGH FAITH....then if THE LORD decides to discipline me or allows me to go certain super test similar to Paul's tests when he was ministering ..well,HE IS THE LORD,HE KNOWS BEST,and NOBODY(expecially me)can discuss or object HIS DOINGS.

But as I try to see this great tribulation affecting the church,well I just cannot see neither in JESUS prophetic messages in the synoptic gospels(Matt,marc,Lk),neither in the letters of the apostles.....

I really believe than spiritualize the Scriptures can mislead us a lot and not having a clear cut differrentation between Israel and Church,which Paul clearly explains in Romans.

So,what can I say,Praise The LOrd and Maranatha!!,in His love,jc :hug:

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings,

Let's examine the verses regarding Enoch:

Gen 5:18-24 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch: 19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: 20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died. 21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: 22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: 23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: 24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

So Enoch lived 365 years, and like Elijah, he walked with God and God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Here is the Greek for the word Translated.

3346 metatithemi {met-at-ith'-ay-mee}

from 3326 and 5087; TDNT - 8:161,1176; v

AV - translate 2, carry over 1, remove 1, change 1, turn 1; 6

1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other)

1a) to transfer

1b) to change

1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred

1c1) to go or pass over

1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another

So where might we see this occuring in the NT:

1 Cor 15:52-54 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

When we are "changed" (translated), we no longer have a body of flesh, or mortality, but one of "immortality". I think we agree that the above is in reference to:

1 Thess 4:15-17 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

In the above quoted verses, compare the blue with the blue and the red with the red highlighted areas.

Note that the RESURRECTION comes first, THEN those who are alive and remain shall be caught up and we shall all be changed. I emphasize the words "caught up" because this is what we refer to as the "rapture".

The "rapture" spoken of by Pre-tribbers is a SECRET rapture which occurs BEFORE the FIRST RESURRECTION. Thus making a LIE out of the ONLY scripture which refers to it.

Jude 1:14-24 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. 17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. 20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

If you will notice the red highlited portion above, you will see that Believers will be here during the time of the mockers and evil doers and we have a job to do - to save those whom we can by pulling them from the fire. We are NOT taken PRIOR to the Lord's coming as seen here:

2 Thess 2:1-10 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Now according to the pre-trib end days timeline, where do you believe the "falling away" occurs? When is the man of sin revealed? Is it not written above that these things must come FIRST?

I do believe that Enoch's and Elijah's "translation" is the precedent for the "rapture", but I believe that what their stories demonstrate is that VERY FEW - a remnant (those who are alive and remain) shall be raptured. And the NT reveals that it occurs AFTER the FIRST RESURRECTION, which occurs about the time of the 7th Trumpet in the Book of Revelation.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[jc49]

Greetings,

Let's examine the verses regarding Enoch:

Gen 5:18-24 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch: 19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: 20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died. 21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: 22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: 23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: 24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

So Enoch lived 365 years, and like Elijah, he walked with God and God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Here is the Greek for the word Translated.

3346 metatithemi {met-at-ith'-ay-mee}

from 3326 and 5087; TDNT - 8:161,1176; v

AV - translate 2, carry over 1, remove 1, change 1, turn 1; 6

1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other)

1a) to transfer

1b) to change

1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred

1c1) to go or pass over

1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another

So where might we see this occuring in the NT:

1 Cor 15:52-54 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

When we are "changed" (translated), we no longer have a body of flesh, or mortality, but one of "immortality". I think we agree that the above is in reference to:

1 Thess 4:15-17 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

In the above quoted verses, compare the blue with the blue and the red with the red highlighted areas.

Note that the RESURRECTION comes first, THEN those who are alive and remain shall be caught up and we shall all be changed. I emphasize the words "caught up" because this is what we refer to as the "rapture".

The "rapture" spoken of by Pre-tribbers is a SECRET rapture which occurs BEFORE the FIRST RESURRECTION. Thus making a LIE out of the ONLY scripture which refers to it.

Jude 1:14-24 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. 17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. 20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

If you will notice the red highlited portion above, you will see that Believers will be here during the time of the mockers and evil doers and we have a job to do - to save those whom we can by pulling them from the fire. We are NOT taken PRIOR to the Lord's coming as seen here:

2 Thess 2:1-10 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Now according to the pre-trib end days timeline, where do you believe the "falling away" occurs? When is the man of sin revealed? Is it not written above that these things must come FIRST?

I do believe that Enoch's and Elijah's "translation" is the precedent for the "rapture", but I believe that what their stories demonstrate is that VERY FEW - a remnant (those who are alive and remain) shall be raptured. And the NT reveals that it occurs AFTER the FIRST RESURRECTION, which occurs about the time of the 7th Trumpet in the Book of Revelation.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Dad Ernie,

I really tired of your "theological" distorsions,I believe you are a christian and I pray that you will be blessed,but I am leaving this Forum,cause instead of getting edified and encouraged,I find myself in heavy debates that can cause strife...'

I really don't want debates and strife ...there is enough of that in this sin cursed planet,this is my last post,God bless you all,I still believe in a PRETRIB RAPTURE....

MARANATHA!!!.JESUS IS COMING SOON!