The Marriage Covenant

[Guest yod]

The point of many wives in the ancient times was for the woman's sake so she would be able to have children during the child-bearing age.

Men were outnumbered in those days because they didn't always live long with wars every spring and general mortality rates being lower.

I always chuckle at poor Jacob. He only wanted Rachael but had to take Leah first because she was the oldest (and had to marry before her younger sister). Then his beloved Rachael worried that she wouldn't bear children and gave Jacob her maiden, then Leah got her maiden in on the deal, then Rachael finally had a couple of boys...

Oy vehzmir!

One is too much for me to handle!

[Lionroot]

Nebula,

I am actually making the point because it illustrates the confusion people have reconciling what they read in the word with their own culture. We naturally apply our own cultural standards when reading, which causes missunderstandings, and no other topic illustrates this more clearly. When what we should be doing is throwing off the cultural standards of this world and adopting God's standard. Is that not what God instructed the Israelites as he took them out of Egypt?

You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God

"Not amasing many wives" does not necessarily mean "no more than one."

However, it does imply a measure of self-control.

Here again are we talking about David's self-control, or did David accepts God's control when he received the wives that God says He gave to David?(2 Sam 12:8) If the LORD gives something and we reject it, to meet our cultural standards, are we showing self control?

Now when we talk about Solomon, now there was a man with self control, but not God control. He did exactly what he wanted to do, when he wanted to do it, without regard for God's commands. When we do not submit to God, we end up in a bad place. ( No pun intended)

Now, was David a "perfect" man as far as everything else went?

I never said he was, only that he got a strong Biblical endorsement, from the Yahweh himself.

As far as the sins of his children, this is simply not an absolute result of polygamy. Even the best parents can have wayward children. Adam and Eve did not even have parents (as such) yet they sinned. Cain had monogamous parents and still killed his brother. We live in a "monogamous" nation but the generations rebel, and increase in violence. The numbers of Evangelical Christians is dropping with each generation at an alarming rate.

We can learn alot about Godly homes from the scriptures, but not if we wrongly debase our examples.

God Bless,

Robert

[nebula]

Yup - what I was afraid of . . . a polygomy advocate.

[Lionroot]

Yup - what I was afraid of . . . a polygomy advocate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nebula,

You have side stepped all issues in both of your replies. It is clear that you are not ready to give an answer. If you have a position that amounts to something more than schoolyard name calling I would love to hear it.

God Bless,

Robert

Where is the Nebula who wrote:

So, what I thought was good theology five years ago, I now think is bad theology.

Now, I know that teachers have a heavy responsibility. Yet, they are still human and prone to mistakes and deceptions and misunderstandings like the rest of us.

Edited March 12, 2005 by Lionroot

[Guest shiloh357]

Actually, you do come off as a polygamy advocate, so she is not calling you names, she is simply stating what others see also.

Are you, or are you not, advocating polygamy?

[Lionroot]

Hey Shiloh,

Welcome to the discussion.

Thanks for your question.

Are you, or are you not,  advocating polygamy?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The simple answer is no.

Polygamy is far too broad a term for me to support.

Did David sin when he took his second wife? The scriptures indicate that he did not. Does that make me an advocate? Maybe for David.

The polygamy called, "serial monogamy" is a sin. The Bible speaks about it (Matt 19:10), and yet many Christians live and practice this lifestyle. (The Barna Group) Including some preachers. How they turn and criticize the patriarchs without blushing is a wonder. (John 8:7)

Name calling is the last volley of a weak argument. If I am wrong will you and nebula be courteous enough to answer my questions, and show me the error of my ways.

God Bless,

Robert

Among married born again Christians, 35% have experienced a divorce. That figure is identical to the outcome among married adults who are not born again: 35%.

[Guest shiloh357]

Name calling is the last volley of a weak argument. If I am wrong will you and nebula be courteous enough to answer my questions, and show me the error of my ways. 

Questions such as...?

[Arthur Durnan]

The first polygamy is indicated in Genesis 4:19, "And Lamech took unto him two wives..." And while Jehovah God TOLERATED it, there never was a time - Mormons, Muslims & some Christians too, listen up! - when Jehovah God SANCTIONED it. NEVER! Aside from the fact that polygamy is unlawful in America, Bible scholars agree that the entire weight of biblical teaching is on the side of ONE man, ONE wife. EVERYTHING in the Old Testament is not to taken as the model for Christians today under the New Covenant. The Bible is abundantly CLEAR where it states: "They two shall be one flesh." If two shall be one flesh, what shall three be?

Our Lord's crystal-clear teaching on holy matrimony should settle the issue beyond recall. A careful perusal of Scripture re establishment of the human family such as Genesis 1:27,28; 2:21-24; and Jesus's own comment re Matthew 19:4-6 underscores the fact that God's original intent for humankind was a family consisting of one man, one woman, and children. Polygamy was the original intention; in fact, it doesn't in Holy Scripture - this is very interesting - UNTIL AFTER THE FALL.

Polygamy has proved to be one of the biggest curses ever perpetrated on the human race. Wherever it is practiced there is the outright degradation of women.

Muslims lead in this regard: FOUR wives per man; but AS MANY AS HE LIKES for polygamist warrior-general Muhammad! And they'll all walk ten steps behind him, yes? Truth to tell, single "blessedness" is much to be preferred to any polygamist situation.

Thank You, Lord Jesus, for making the Marriage Covenant MOST EXPLICIT!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Lionroot]

Hey Shiloh,

That was quick, if markedly unresponsive.

 

Questions such as...? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know that you were not a participant in the earlier discussion, so I'll be happy to cut and paste them back here.

Well, the Bible is conspicuously silent in condemning polygamy, but in regard to David when did he screw up exactly? Was it when he took another wife?

...did David accepts God's control when he received the wives that God says He gave to David?(2 Sam 12:8)

This question was also about David's self-control.

If the LORD gives something and we reject it, to meet our cultural standards, are we showing self control?

Did David sin when he took his second wife? The scriptures indicate that he did not. Does that make me an advocate?

I was really hoping you would respond to the paragraph I wrote in my last posting about "serial monogamy. Its shocking to find that much polygamy in the Church is it not? I found this quote on the same page I referenced before. I do hope your read it.

Multiple divorces are also unexpectedly common among born again Christians. Barna

[Guest shiloh357]

That was quick, if markedly unresponsive. 

I prefer to just get down to the point.

I will study your questions, and post my answers. I have to get ready for a birthday party, and I need to make sure the housework is done. I am not avoiding answering, I am just being pulled in different directions, just now.