Guest shiloh357 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Presumably Israelis are only grafted back in through faith in Christ? Just like everyone else. And together we become the New Israel. Outside of Christ we are of course separate, except in the sense of being human beings in need of the Saviour. ............................................... But in order for there to be a "new" Israel, there would have to be a new tree. No, the ones who rejected their Messiah were cut off, while the ones who believed and received remained in their tree. Eventually, Gentiles were grafted into the same old tree. There is no "new" anything. Why? A new branch can be grafted into the existing tree! The New Israel. No, the entire olive tree is represented as Israel. In the grafting analogy, it is important to remember that grafting doesn't change the branch. A wild olive branch remains a wild olive branch. It is still being nourished by the roots of the native olive tree. A "New Israel" requires the original native tree to be supplanted by a new tree. Another thing to keep in mind is what Paul has in mind when he uses the grafting analogy. "Grafted in" is not a reference to salvation. The gentiles are "grafted" into Israel in order to have access to the promises God gave to Israel. God is allowing the Gentiles to participate in the commonwealth of Israel and to participate in the covenants. (Eph. 2) Being grafted in is the result of salvation, not a metaphor or analogy for salvation. The wild branches are nourished by the roots of the native olive. The grafted in Genties are participating in what belongs to Israel. They do not become a "new Israel." There is nothing in the text of Romans 11 that has such a concept in view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted June 10, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Presumably Israelis are only grafted back in through faith in Christ? Just like everyone else. And together we become the New Israel. Outside of Christ we are of course separate, except in the sense of being human beings in need of the Saviour. ............................................... But in order for there to be a "new" Israel, there would have to be a new tree. No, the ones who rejected their Messiah were cut off, while the ones who believed and received remained in their tree. Eventually, Gentiles were grafted into the same old tree. There is no "new" anything. Why? A new branch can be grafted into the existing tree! The New Israel. You are most obviously twisting Scripture to suit your belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted June 12, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2013 Just had this info sent to me.... Israel's Existence Disproves Christian Replacement Theology (by Ryan Jones - Israel Today online news - June 11th, 2013) In an article published in a local Israeli newspaper around the time of Israel's 65th Independence Day, Rabbi Moshe Chaim Har-Noy puzzled over the fact that there are still so many Bible-believing Jews who refuse to celebrate the Jewish state's modern rebirth. "Perhaps these dear Jews missed the words of Rabbi Yosef Dov Soloveitchik in his wonderful speech 'Kol Dodi Dofek' (The Voice of My Beloved Knocks)," mused Har-Noy. Soloveitchik, a Boston-based rabbinical leader and one of the msot renowned of modern Jewish philosophers, delivered a powerful public address in 1956 on the occasion of Israel's eighth Independence Day. In it, Soloveitchik argued that "all the claims of Christian theologians that God deprived the Jewish people of its rights in the land of Israel, and that all the biblical promises regarding Zion and Jerusalem refer, in an allegorical sense, to Christianity and the Christian Church, have been publicly refuted by the establishment of the State of Israel and have been exposed as falsehoods, lacking all validity." Har-Noy noted that for centuries the Christian Church used the fact that the Jewish people had been deprived of their nation and could find no rest in their exile as evidence that God had made Christians the new "Chosen People." "Then came the Holocaust and the torturous destruction of a third of our people. For the Christians this was incontrovertible evidence that the previous Chosen People would never rise again," the rabbi continued. "And then the State of Israel was established!" For this reason, Har-Noy asserted, the rebirth of Israel was as much a deep spiritual event as it was the establishment of a safe harbor for Jews. "Independence Day is first and foremost a celebration of the rise of the Jewish people from the dust, as the verse says: 'Rise from the dust, dress in your garments of splendor, my people,'" the rabbi said, referencing the Lekhah Dodi (Come My Beloved), a liturgical song that is part of the Jewish service welcoming the weekly Sabbath. With all that it means, how can there be Jews who will recite prayers and scriptures, but not mark the modern holy day that is Israel's prophesied rebirth? "Certainly there is much left to do and much to improve, and that is our mission," concluded the rabbi. "We must take what the previous generations have imparted to us and improve this wonderful gift called the State of Israel." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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