Are You a fundamentalist.........Atheist?

[barnabas]

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

It is interesting to notice that those who deny the existence of God do not really live consistently with their own belief. In fact, subconsciously, an atheist actually acknowledges the authority of God every time he judges something to be morally right or wrong. A consistent atheist cannot admit moral values, because there is no such thing as a moral value if there is no God. You see, an atheist has no real philosophical basis for saying that you are morally wrong if you steal his car. The most he can say (and still be consistent with his belief) is that you have broken a law which has been set up by a majority of people for the purpose of living more conveniently or pleasurably. But just let someone try lying to an atheist, or stealing something from him, or messing around with his mate, and you will see how quickly he becomes a moralist! Again, it is the rare atheist who refuses to admit that Hitler was wrong when he slaughtered six million Jews. But a consistent atheist has no basis for making that moral judgment. The most he can say (and still be consistent) is that Hitler's action was not pleasing to a majority of an animal species known as human beings, in a certain culture on the planet earth at a certain time in history. Only when God is admitted into the picture do the deeds of Hitler become evil. The first words of the Bible bring God into the picture!

You may be a fundamentalist atheist if....

You became an atheist when you were 10 years old, based on ideas of God that you learned in Sunday School. Your ideas about God haven't changed since.

You believe that extra drippy ice-cream is a logical proof against the existence of God, because an omniscient God would know how to stop the ice-cream from being extra drippy, an omnipotent God would have the ability to stop the ice-cream from being extra drippy, and by golly, an omnibenevolent God wouldn't want your ice-cream to be extra drippy.

You believe the astronomical size of the universe somehow disproves God, as if God needed a tiny universe in order to exist.

You think questions like, "Can God create a rock so big that He cannot lift it?" and, "Can God will Himself out of existence?" are perfect examples of how to disprove God's omnipotence and ultimately how to disprove God. When someone proves to you the false logic behind the questions (i.e. pitting God's omnipotence against itself), you desperately try to defend the questions, but then give up and go to a different Christian site to ask them.

You spend hours arguing that a-theism actually means "without a belief in God " and not just " belief that there is no god" as if this is a meaningful distinction in real life.

You consistently deny the existence of God because you personally have never seen him but you reject out of hand personal testimony from theists who claim to have experienced God as a reality in their lives.

When you were a child, someone came down with a deadly disease and prayed and prayed for God to take it away. God did not remove the disease and your friend died. You ask other Christians why they had to die when they were such a nice person and never harmed anyone. Dissatisfied with their answers, you suddenly decide that there is no God and that all Christians are nothing but lying, conniving con artists and hypocrites....all that is except for your friend who died.

You're a spoiled fifteen year old boy who lives in the suburbs and you go into a chat room to declare that, "I know there is no God because no loving God would allow anyone to suffer as much as I...hold on. My cell phone's ringing."

You believe that if something cannot be touched, seen, heard, or measured in some way, then it must not exist, yet you fail to see the irony of your calling Christians "narrow-minded".

You say that there is no God and that those who believe in God do so in blind faith, yet your claim that there is no God also rests on blind faith.

You believe that planes, computers, calculators, compasses, etc, were "all obviously designed," yet the human body, being intricately more complex was "obviously a product of biological evolution." It seems the more complex the apparatus, the more obvious the "fact" that it was not designed.

When you watch a punt returner run a 93 yard touchdown, you marvel at what evolution has done for the human race. But when someone gets cancer, you blame God for it.

You think that humans are products of chance but when it comes to human reason we can believe in logic! (Think about it !)

When the Pope says that God may have used evolution, he is an enlightened religious leader whom Christians should listen to. When the Pope preaches on the sanctity of human life from conception, and thus denounces abortion, he's just a senile religious bigot who should keep his opinions to himself.

You won't bet $10 on the football game because a 50/50 chance isn't good enough, but you have no problem gambling with your life on the nearly impossible odds of a cell randomly generating from nothing.

You are a person who absolutely believes that life came from nonlife, yet absolutely deny the possibility of anyone rising from the dead.

[Guest Eddie Vil]

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

It is interesting to notice that those who deny the existence of God do not really live consistently with their own belief. In fact, subconsciously, an atheist actually acknowledges the authority of God every time he judges something to be morally right or wrong. A consistent atheist cannot admit moral values, because there is no such thing as a moral value if there is no God. You see, an atheist has no real philosophical basis for saying that you are morally wrong if you steal his car. The most he can say (and still be consistent with his belief) is that you have broken a law which has been set up by a majority of people for the purpose of living more conveniently or pleasurably. But just let someone try lying to an atheist, or stealing something from him, or messing around with his mate, and you will see how quickly he becomes a moralist! Again, it is the rare atheist who refuses to admit that Hitler was wrong when he slaughtered six million Jews. But a consistent atheist has no basis for making that moral judgment. The most he can say (and still be consistent) is that Hitler's action was not pleasing to a majority of an animal species known as human beings, in a certain culture on the planet earth at a certain time in history. Only when God is admitted into the picture do the deeds of Hitler become evil. The first words of the Bible bring God into the picture!

You may be a fundamentalist atheist if....

You became an atheist when you were 10 years old, based on ideas of God that you learned in Sunday School. Your ideas about God haven't changed since.

You believe that extra drippy ice-cream is a logical proof against the existence of God, because an omniscient God would know how to stop the ice-cream from being extra drippy, an omnipotent God would have the ability to stop the ice-cream from being extra drippy, and by golly, an omnibenevolent God wouldn't want your ice-cream to be extra drippy.

You believe the astronomical size of the universe somehow disproves God, as if God needed a tiny universe in order to exist.

You think questions like, "Can God create a rock so big that He cannot lift it?" and, "Can God will Himself out of existence?" are perfect examples of how to disprove God's omnipotence and ultimately how to disprove God. When someone proves to you the false logic behind the questions (i.e. pitting God's omnipotence against itself), you desperately try to defend the questions, but then give up and go to a different Christian site to ask them.

You spend hours arguing that a-theism actually means "without a belief in God " and not just " belief that there is no god" as if this is a meaningful distinction in real life.

You consistently deny the existence of God because you personally have never seen him but you reject out of hand personal testimony from theists who claim to have experienced God as a reality in their lives.

When you were a child, someone came down with a deadly disease and prayed and prayed for God to take it away. God did not remove the disease and your friend died. You ask other Christians why they had to die when they were such a nice person and never harmed anyone. Dissatisfied with their answers, you suddenly decide that there is no God and that all Christians are nothing but lying, conniving con artists and hypocrites....all that is except for your friend who died.

You're a spoiled fifteen year old boy who lives in the suburbs and you go into a chat room to declare that, "I know there is no God because no loving God would allow anyone to suffer as much as I...hold on. My cell phone's ringing."

You believe that if something cannot be touched, seen, heard, or measured in some way, then it must not exist, yet you fail to see the irony of your calling Christians "narrow-minded".

You say that there is no God and that those who believe in God do so in blind faith, yet your claim that there is no God also rests on blind faith.

You believe that planes, computers, calculators, compasses, etc, were "all obviously designed," yet the human body, being intricately more complex was "obviously a product of biological evolution." It seems the more complex the apparatus, the more obvious the "fact" that it was not designed.

When you watch a punt returner run a 93 yard touchdown, you marvel at what evolution has done for the human race. But when someone gets cancer, you blame God for it.

You think that humans are products of chance but when it comes to human reason we can believe in logic! (Think about it !)

When the Pope says that God may have used evolution, he is an enlightened religious leader whom Christians should listen to. When the Pope preaches on the sanctity of human life from conception, and thus denounces abortion, he's just a senile religious bigot who should keep his opinions to himself.

You won't bet $10 on the football game because a 50/50 chance isn't good enough, but you have no problem gambling with your life on the nearly impossible odds of a cell randomly generating from nothing.

You are a person who absolutely believes that life came from nonlife, yet absolutely deny the possibility of anyone rising from the dead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about if I create a list of strawmen to attack alleged Christian Beliefs? I bet that would put me in there too.

[UndecidedFrog]

Dear barnabas,

This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian.

Apparently you hold very strong beliefs of what an atheist is and isn't. I sense so much animosity and hatred toward atheists in your post, I am wondering what did one or a few atheists do to you or your family that you hate them so. Hmmm.

I disagree with all your strawman arguments, but of course, me being an atheist, you would not give my position any creedence. It really doesn't matter to me if you belittle the atheist position. I'm not here to convert you from your beliefs. I do worry about your animosity though. As I have stated in previous posts, hating a group of people only harms the hater more than the hated. What do you think your Jesus Christ would do?

I advise that you release this animosity, before you blow an aneursym, or come across less tolerant atheists.

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

[Az_]

And this is why I am here. This is the sort of lies and disinformation that lead to people being hurt. I am an atheist. I will now respond to each of these statements.

It is interesting to notice that those who deny the existence of God do not really live consistently with their own belief. In fact, subconsciously, an atheist actually acknowledges the authority of God every time he judges something to be morally right or wrong.

You of course know this from first hand experience. You are an atheist right? Or were you bearing false witness? Atheists as well as many other religious/philosophical groups have a variety of means of establishing a moral basis on which to live. Some rely on doctrine. Others rely on reason. There are entire nations that have managed to create moral societies without the assertion of the morality coming from God.

For myself I base my moral guidelines on principles of shared interest among my fellow humans. I know what I consider to be harmful to me and by reasoning expect that others may share some of these notions as well. There for I can reason that good is treating others as I would have them treat me. I can go on and explain the sense of this further but I expect you may recognise the basic sentiment as the Golden rule as taught by Jesus. Christianity is not the first nor will it be the last to come to the realization that this is an extremely good basis upon which to build a society.

You see, an atheist has no real philosophical basis for saying that you are morally wrong if you steal his car. The most he can say (and still be consistent with his belief) is that you have broken a law which has been set up by a majority of people for the purpose of living more conveniently or pleasurably.

I can say quite a bit more. Someone stealing a car severly disrupts social harmony. It severes trust and destroys community. It takes a person's property away that they have struggled to earn. It threatens their very life if they are dependent on that car. It undermines the very fabric of our society.

But just let someone try lying to an atheist, or stealing something from him, or messing around with his mate, and you will see how quickly he becomes a moralist!

Of course they will be upset about it. We all agree to strive together in cooperation as it benefits all equally. When one person tries to upend the system and cheat it, it harms us as well as everyone else. We are a learning species. If we go around cheating and stealing we wind up teaching others to cheat and steal. And eventually it comes back and destroys us. Socrates even spoke of this when he was being tried unjustly for teaching his students to be evil. This is an ancient principle of society and not something that only came about with the arrival of the Abrahamic God.

Again, it is the rare atheist who refuses to admit that Hitler was wrong when he slaughtered six million Jews. But a consistent atheist has no basis for making that moral judgment. The most he can say (and still be consistent) is that Hitler's action was not pleasing to a majority of an animal species known as human beings, in a certain culture on the planet earth at a certain time in history. Only when God is admitted into the picture do the deeds of Hitler become evil. The first words of the Bible bring God into the picture!

Actually the first thing a typical atheist will point out about Hitler is that he dedicated his book Mein Kampf to God. Here is a very simple means of discerning why killing six million Jews was wrong. I enjoy life. By reasoning I can conjecture that others enjoy life. If their life can so easily be tossed away because another group of people decide they do not count as human then my life can just as easily be discarded by a sufficient number of people. Thus in defending the life of others I defend my own life. Consider this famous quote:

First they came for the Communists,

and I didn

Edited October 29, 2004 by Az_

[Bread_of_Life]

Barnabas

A consistent atheist cannot admit moral values, because there is no such thing as a moral value if there is no God.

This is simply a statement of your belief that apparantly we are meant to just accept a priori, without any metaethical analysis.

Actually, to be more accurate, it is the amalgamation of 2 ethical premises, both of which we are apparant just meant to accept without backing. Those 2 are:

1) That theism provides a sound basis for ethics

and

2) That there can be no sound basis for ethics outside of theism.

Actually, I agree with neither of these statements. I do not think that theism provides any sounder a basis for ethics than anything else, in fact, I think it is often less sound and more arbitrary. Secondly, I think that there are several atheistic systems of ethics, one of which I hold, which I would defend as being at least equal to any theistic system.

I'm afraid, since the rest of your post was basically strawman nonsense (and not a serious attempt at argument), and since you've provided no actual backing to your substantial claims above about ethics, that there is nothing more to say at the moment.

[ChadB]

I want to say that I have no hatred towards atheists. I do pray for them though.

So don't take what I say as hatred; more like frustration. I sure would like to be sittin' at the pearly gates with scientificatheist, undecidedfrog, and az talking about when we used to spend hours on worthy boards!

Anyway, I think most atheists just don't realize where morality comes from. They think that humans made it up or something. From God my friend, from God.

I also tend to think that a lot of atheists are not as smart as they think they are. They read fancy books with big words and attempt to confuse people with their "unmeasurable brain capacity". Look at me, look at me they say. Hey, I'm right and I lack confidence in my conviction so I must spread my ideas. Christians spread their ideas because we want to see others come to Christ. Why do atheists? Something about so they won't be the subject of hate crimes or something. Funny, I have never heard of such a thing. In this culture christians get persecuted far more than those who are unbelievers. I think they talk about their beliefs just because they are unsure. And maybe a little afraid.

Something was mentioned about striving to get someplace in life. As an atheist why even bother? I mean, if you are just worm food then why not just forget about it. Stop caring. Do what you want. Live like an animal. Afterall, thats what we are. Sleep with as many people as you can; maybe even someone elses spouse. If it feels good do it. Who cares, nothing matters anyway.

Lets face it. As an atheist you want to believe, you just don't know it. Why else would you be reading posts on a christian site? Its that "I'm right ain't I" idea.

If there is no God then there is no reason for anything. Stop reading books to disprove God and try reading books that prove He is very real.

Maybe even pray and see what happens.

[Az_]

You obviously are very concerned about what atheists are thinking. If you really want to know what we are about then ask us. Presuming you know what we think kind of upsets us. Just as I expect you would be upset if I lumped you in with all the negative stereotypes of Christianity.

You have a number of atheists present here who are willing to explain how we see things. We are not here to convert you. We are here to rid the ignorance people have about us. I will not sit here and trade persecution stories but I will simply inform you that I have personally been the direct victim of vandalism on numerous occaisions from people who likely identify themself as Christians. Whether you believe they are really Chrisitians or not is irrelevant. They get their attitudes and beliefs about atheists from attitudes like that presented here.

I am not going to challenge your beliefs about God. But I am going to challenge what you believe about atheists. Simply because beliefs such as those do me harm.

[Bread_of_Life]

ChadB,

Look back at the first post that started this thread. Read it, think about it.

Now, does it really look like a humble expression of thoughts about atheism, or does it look like a post that's designed to annoy, to spread stereotypes, and to assume lots of "truths" that not everyone believes in?

When, Chad, have you seen me posting this sort of a post about Christians? Do I list strawman "christian" beliefs to mock you? Do I just state things as if they're obviously true without giving any evidence or backing to them - am I that arrogant?

And when you say that Christians preach because they want others to come to christ - on a scale of 0 to 100%, how likely do you think the first post in this thread is to bring atheists to christ? Might it even drive them away?

And look at your own post chad - you make a whole lot of assumptions about atheists. You say that we want to believe, you say we're scared, you say we're unsure, you assume we only read books that are atheistic? How did you gain all of this knowledge about us Chad? Are these comment likely to bring us all to Christ? And indeed, how would you like it if I started to stereotype Christians, and assume and say all sorts of things about your personal characteristics that I couldn't possibly know? Would it attract you to me more, or put you off me and what I have to say?

Judge not Chad, lest thou shall be judged.

[ChadB]

Do I get too worked up about this stuff=yes

Do I sometimes come across as mad or negative=yes

Do I genuinely care about the salvation of the lost=with all my heart

Do I hate the atheist=no way.

Do I think they are stupid=no

Do I think they are confused=yes, about God

Do I think I am confused=yes, because I can't possibly understand everything

Do I truly think atheists want to believe=yes. Who wouldn't? To believe in a Supreme Creator Who loves you and wants you to spend an enternity with you.

Do I truly think atheists have fear or doubt in them=yes. I can't help but feel this way. Its just what I have picked up on. Its not meant to be negative. Heck, I sometimes have doubt and I always have some sort of fear. But I truly believe that atheists sometimes fear that they may be living a lie.

Something to remember is that the christian is not perfect, just aware of their need for Christ. Those of you who are atheists try praying. Just give it a shot. I challenge you to at least spend some time in the other camp. Try to open yourselves up to the idea instead of just trying to disprove Christ.

You have to understand my frustration. I am not trying to be a jerk or make you feel bad. I just hope that you will feel convicted to explore the possibility of christianity. Some of you may have already. But do it again. And do so with an open heart. Remember, I don't think you are dumb or anything. Just lost. And I am not sittin' here with evil intentions. I want you to have what I have. I care.

[BobTriez]

Where's Jesus in this discussion ? Remember....this is a Christian message board....and while y'all are welcome here, be prepared to have Christians defend the Name of Jesus....you really aren't shocked by that are you ? We just can't help it Jesus is so good and I do love Him so

Carry on though....but we'll be watching this one

God bless,

Bob