TsukinoRei Posted August 23, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 438 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/02/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2013 The Methodist movement is a group of historically related denominations of Protestant Christianity which derive their inspiration from the life and teachings of John Wesley. George Whitefield and John's brother Charles Wesley were also significant leaders in the movement. It originated as a revival within the 18th-century Church of England and became a separate Church following Wesley's death. Due to vigorous missionary activity, the movement spread throughout the British Empire, the United States, and beyond, today claiming approximately 80 million adherents worldwide.[1] Methodism is characterised by its emphasis on helping the poor and the average person, its very systematic approach to building the person, and the "church" and its missionary spirit.[2] These ideals are put into practice by the establishment of hospitals, universities, orphanages, soup kitchens, and schools to follow Jesus' command to spread the Good News and serve all people.[3] The Methodist movement is also known for its rich musical tradition. Charles Wesley was instrumental in writing much of the hymnody of the Methodist Church,[4] and many other eminent hymn writers come from the Methodist tradition. Methodists are convinced that building loving relationships with others through social service is a means of working towards the inclusiveness of God's love which, it is held, can reform a person to a state of perfection. They teach that Christdied for all of humanity, not just for a specific group, and thus everyone is entitled to God's grace. Theologically, this view is known as Arminianism, which denies that God has pre-ordained an elect number of people to eternal bliss whilst others perished eternally. Methodism has a wide variety of forms of worship, ranging from high church to low church in liturgical usage. John Wesley himself greatly valued the Anglican liturgy and tradition, and the American Methodist worship in The Book of Offices was based on the 1662 Book of Common Prayer.[5] Early Methodists were drawn from all levels of society, including the aristocracy,[a] but the Methodist preachers took the message to labourers and criminals who tended to be left outside organized religion at that time. In Britain the Methodist Church had a major impact in the early decades of the making of the working class (1760–1820). In the United States it became the religion of many slaves who later formed "black churches" in the Methodist tradition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methodism John Wesley and the early Methodists placed primary emphasis on Christian living, on putting faith and love into action. This emphasis on what Wesley referred to as "practical divinity" has continued to be a hallmark of United Methodism today. We invite you to learn more about our rich theological heritage. United Methodists share a common heritage with all Christians. According to our foundational statement of beliefs in The Book of Discipline, we share the following basic affirmations in common with all Christian communities: Trinity We describe God in three persons. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are commonly used to refer to the threefold nature of God. Sometimes we use other terms, such as Creator, Redeemer, and Sustainer. Excerpt from What Every Teacher Needs to Know About Theology (Discipleship Resources, 2002), p. 13. God We believe in one God, who created the world and all that is in it. We believe that God is sovereign; that is, God is the ruler of the universe. We believe that God is loving. We can experience God’s love and grace. Excerpt from What Every Teacher Needs to Know About Theology (Discipleship Resources, 2002), p. 13. Read more about our belief in God Jesus We believe that Jesus was human. He lived as a man and died when he was crucified. We believe that Jesus is divine. He is the Son of God. We believe that God raised Jesus from the dead and that the risen Christ lives today. (Christ and messiah mean the same thing—God’s anointed.) We believe that Jesus is our Savior. In Christ we receive abundant life and forgiveness of sins. We believe that Jesus is our Lord and that we are called to pattern our lives after his. Excerpt from What Every Teacher Needs to Know About Theology (Discipleship Resources, 2002), p. 13-14. Read more about our belief in Jesus Christ Read more about our beliefs about salvation The Holy Spirit We believe that the Holy Spirit is God with us. We believe that the Holy Spirit comforts us when we are in need and convicts us when we stray from God. We believe that the Holy Spirit awakens us to God’s will and empowers us to live obediently. Excerpt from What Every Teacher Needs to Know About Theology (Discipleship Resources, 2002), p. 14. Read more about our belief in the Holy Spirit Human Beings We believe that God created human beings in God’s image. We believe that humans can choose to accept or reject a relationship with God. We believe that all humans need to be in relationship with God in order to be fully human. Excerpt from What Every Teacher Needs to Know About Theology (Discipleship Resources, 2002), p. 14. Read more about confessions of sin Read more about our beliefs about salvation The Church We believe that the church is the body of Christ, an extension of Christ’s life and ministry in the world today. We believe that the mission of the church is to make disciples of Jesus Christ. We believe that the church is “the communion of saints,” a community made up of all past, present, and future disciples of Christ. We believe that the church is called to worship God and to support those who participate in its life as they grow in faith. Excerpt from What Every Teacher Needs to Know About Theology (Discipleship Resources, 2002), p. 14. The Bible We believe that the Bible is God’s Word. We believe that the Bible is the primary authority for our faith and practice. We believe that Christians need to know and study the Old Testament and the New Testament (the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Scriptures). Excerpt from What Every Teacher Needs to Know About Theology (Discipleship Resources, 2002), p. 15. Read more about our belief in the Bible The Reign of God We believe that the kingdom or reign of God is both a present reality and future hope. We believe that wherever God's will is done, the kingdom or reign of God is present. It was present in Jesus' ministry, and it is also present in our world whenever persons and communities experience reconciliation, restoration, and healing. We believe that although the fulfillment of God's kingdom--the complete restoration of creation--is still to come. We believe that the church is called to be both witness to the vision of what God's kingdom will be like and a participant in helping to bring it to completion. We believe that the reign of God is both personal and social. Personally, we display the kingdom of God as our hearts and minds are transformed and we become more Christ-like. Socially, God's vision for the kingdom includes the restoration and transformation of all of creation. Adapted from Who Are We? Leader's Guide, p. 28. Read more about our belief and trust in the Lord of the future Sacraments With many other Protestants, we recognize the two sacraments in which Christ himself participated: Baptism and the Lord's Supper. Baptism Through baptism we are joined with the church and with Christians everywhere. Baptism is a symbol of new life and a sign of God's love and forgiveness of our sins. Persons of any age can be baptized. We baptize by sprinkling, immersion or pouring. A person receives the sacrament of baptism only once in his or her life. Read By Water and Spirit, the church's official statement on Baptism Read about baptism in the MethoPedia The Lord's Supper (Communion, Eucharist) The Lord's Supper is a holy meal of bread and wine that symbolizes the body and blood of Christ. The Lord's Supper recalls the life, death and resurrection of Jesus and celebrates the unity of all the members of God's family. By sharing this meal, we give thanks for Christ's sacrifice and are nourished and empowered to go into the world in mission and ministry. We practice "open Communion," welcoming all who love Christ, repent of their sin, and seek to live in peace with one another. http://www.umc.org/site/c.lwL4KnN1LtH/b.2299859/k.13B7/Our_Christian_Roots.htm Our Wesleyan Theological Heritage Distinctive Emphases Wesley and the early Methodists were particularly concerned about inviting people to experience God’s grace and to grow in their knowledge and love of God through disciplined Christian living. They placed primary emphasis on Christian living, on putting faith and love into action. This emphasis on what Wesley referred to as "practical divinity" has continued to be a hallmark of United Methodism today. The distinctive shape of our theological heritage can be seen not only in this emphasis on Christian living, but also in Wesley's distinctive understanding of God's saving grace. Although Wesley shared with many other Christians a belief in salvation by grace, he combined them in a powerful way to create distinctive emphases for living the full Christian life. Read more from the Book of Discipline Grace Grace is central to our understanding of Christian faith and life. Grace can be defined as the love and mercy given to us by God because God wants us to have it, not because of anything we have done to earn it. We read in the Letter to the Ephesians: “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—not the result of works, so that no one may boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Our United Methodist heritage is rooted in a deep and profound understanding of God’s grace. This incredible grace flows from God’s great love for us. Did you have to memorize John 3:16 in Sunday school when you were a child? There was a good reason. This one verse summarizes the gospel: “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.” The ability to call to mind God’s love and God’s gift of Jesus Christ is a rich resource for theology and faith.” John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist movement, described God’s grace as threefold: prevenient grace justifying grace sanctifying grace Excerpt from Teachers as Spiritual Leaders and Theologians. Used by permission. Prevenient Grace Wesley understood grace as God’s active presence in our lives. This presence is not dependent on human actions or human response. It is a gift—a gift that is always available, but that can be refused. God’s grace stirs up within us a desire to know God and empowers us to respond to God’s invitation to be in relationship with God. God’s grace enables us to discern differences between good and evil and makes it possible for us to choose good…. God takes the initiative in relating to humanity. We do not have to beg and plead for God’s love and grace. God actively seeks us! Excerpt from Teachers as Spiritual Leaders and Theologians. Used by permission. Justifying Grace Paul wrote to the church in Corinth: “In Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them” (2 Corinthians 5:19). And in his letter to the Roman Christians, Paul wrote: “But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8). These verses demonstrate the justifying grace of God. They point to reconciliation, pardon, and restoration. Through the work of God in Christ our sins are forgiven, and our relationship with God is restored. According to John Wesley, founder of the Methodist movement, the image of God—which has been distorted by sin—is renewed within us through Christ’s death. Again, this dimension of God’s grace is a gift. God’s grace alone brings us into relationship with God. There are no hoops through which we have to jump in order to please God and to be loved by God. God has acted in Jesus Christ. We need only to respond in faith. Excerpt from Teachers as Spiritual Leaders and Theologians. Used by permission. Conversion This process of salvation involves a change in us that we call conversion. Conversion is a turning around, leaving one orientation for another. It may be sudden and dramatic, or gradual and cumulative. But in any case, it’s a new beginning. Following Jesus’ words to Nicodemus, “You must be born anew” (John 3:7 RSV), we speak of this conversion as rebirth, new life in Christ, or regeneration. Following Paul and Luther, John Wesley called this process justification. Justification is what happens when Christians abandon all those vain attempts to justify themselves before God, to be seen as “just” in God’s eyes through religious and moral practices. It’s a time when God’s “justifying grace” is experienced and accepted, a time of pardon and forgiveness, of new peace and joy and love. Indeed, we’re justified by God’s grace through faith. Justification is also a time of repentance—turning away from behaviors rooted in sin and toward actions that express God’s love. In this conversion we can expect to receive assurance of our present salvation through the Holy Spirit “bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God” (Romans 8:16). Excerpt from The United Methodist Member's Handbook, p. 78-79. Sanctifying Grace Salvation is not a static, one-time event in our lives. It is the ongoing experience of God’s gracious presence transforming us into whom God intends us to be. John Wesley described this dimension of God’s grace as sanctification, or holiness. (Excerpt from Teachers as Spiritual Leaders and Theologians. Used by permission.) Through God’s sanctifying grace, we grow and mature in our ability to live as Jesus lived. As we pray, study the Scriptures, fast, worship, and share in fellowship with other Christians, we deepen our knowledge of and love for God. As we respond with compassion to human need and work for justice in our communities, we strengthen our capacity to love neighbor. Our inner thoughts and motives, as well as our outer actions and behavior, are aligned with God’s will and testify to our union with God. (Excerpt from Teachers as Spiritual Leaders and Theologians.Used by permission.) We’re to press on, with God’s help, in the path of sanctification toward perfection. By perfection, Wesley did not mean that we would not make mistakes or have weaknesses. Rather, he understood it to be a continual process of being made perfect in our love of God and each other and of removing our desire to sin. (Adapted from Who Are We? : Doctrine, Ministry, and the Mission of The United Methodist Church, Revised: Leader's Guide by Kenneth L. Carder, Cokesbury, p. 46.) Read more from the Book of Discipline Read more about Grace Read John Wesley's sermon, "Christian Perfection" Faith and Good Works United Methodists insist that faith and good works belong together. What we believe must be confirmed by what we do. Personal salvation must be expressed in ministry and mission in the world. We believe that Christian doctrine and Christian ethics are inseparable, that faith should inspire service. The integration of personal piety and social holiness has been a hallmark of our tradition. We affirm the biblical precept that "faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead" (James 2:17). Excerpt from The United Methodist Primer, 2005 Revised Edition by Chester E. Custer (Discipleship Resources, 2005); p. 59. Mission and Service Because of what God has done for us, we offer our lives back to God through a life of service. As disciples, we become active participants in God’s activity in the world through mission and service. Love of God is always linked to love of neighbor and to a passionate commitment to seeking justice and renewal in the world. Nurture and Mission of the Church For Wesley, there was no religion but social religion, no holiness but social holiness. In other words, faith always includes a social dimension. One cannot be a solitary Christian. As we grow in faith through our participation in the church community, we are also nourished and equipped for mission and service to the world. "From Wesley's time to the present, Methodism has sought to be both a nurturing community and a servant community. Members of Methodist Societies and class meetings met for personal nurture through giving to the poor, visiting the imprisoned, and working for justice and peace in the community. They sought not only to receive the fullness of God's grace for themselves; but...they saw themselves as existing 'to reform the nation...and to spread scriptural holiness over the land'" I am disgusted by the ignorance and hate displayed in this thread. If I am to 'know them by their fruit' then whatever you people are teaching is nothing to do with God. I can't believe I'm reading statements like this; It is not about "pressure." Episcopalians and Methodists teach a very liberal doctrine that has nothing to do with the gospel of Christ. In that vein, in a very real sense, they are not even a church. At least not one that teaches the right Gospel. That is hardly the fault of the people who point that out. They always have the option of getting their doctrine in line with the dictates of the scripture, which plainly says that homosexuality is a sin. Barring that, then the statement is true: They are worthless when it comes to the Gospel, because they obviously do not know what the gospel is. The Methodists are useless at best, and dangerous at worst. God walked out on them years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted August 23, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,396 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,568 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted August 23, 2013 I am disgusted by the ignorance and hate displayed in this thread. If I am to 'know them by their fruit' then whatever you people are teaching is nothing to do with God. That's a pretty broad statement ... showing you emotion is more engaged than your head! Whatever denomination I was in and they taught things not in the Word of God- I would quit that group! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsukinoRei Posted August 23, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 438 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/02/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2013 I am disgusted by the ignorance and hate displayed in this thread. If I am to 'know them by their fruit' then whatever you people are teaching is nothing to do with God. That's a pretty broad statement ... showing you emotion is more engaged than your head! Whatever denomination I was in and they taught things not in the Word of God- I would quit that group! Love, Steven By those standards there would be no such thing as a truly Christian denomination at all. Certainly not Baptist or Wesleyan. How can it have completely passed so many people by that this Church is standing in defiance of it's own denomination? How then would you judge the entire denomination by the actions of the one Church? And even if their denomination did stand in agreement with them by stating that nothing they teach is aligned with scripture simply because you disagree with this one point places you in defiance with all the things they teach which clearly ARE in line with scripture and even in line with what all the other worldly flawed denominations which you all follow are teaching. You betray yourselves. I know there are Baptist and Wesleyan Churches that preach racism and when those Churches are brought up to the heads of those denominations they waffle about and say it's up to the individual Churches. But when an individual Church wants to perform Gay marriages THAT'S something that the heads of every denomination unanimously take a stand against. It seems to me that if every Church believes in Christ, that does not unite them. If every Church believes in the work of the Cross, that does not unite them. If every Church believes in serving the poor, visiting the prisoners, in the transforming power of the Holy Spirit that does not unite them! The one thing that seems to me to have the power to unite every Christian is bigotry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted August 23, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,396 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,568 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted August 23, 2013 I am disgusted by the ignorance and hate displayed in this thread. If I am to 'know them by their fruit' then whatever you people are teaching is nothing to do with God. That's a pretty broad statement ... showing you emotion is more engaged than your head! Whatever denomination I was in and they taught things not in the Word of God- I would quit that group! Love, Steven By those standards there would be no such thing as a truly Christian denomination at all. Certainly not Baptist or Wesleyan. How can it have completely passed so many people by that this Church is standing in defiance of it's own denomination? How then would you judge the entire denomination by the actions of the one Church? And even if their denomination did stand in agreement with them by stating that nothing they teach is aligned with scripture simply because you disagree with this one point places you in defiance with all the things they teach which clearly ARE in line with scripture and even in line with what all the other worldly flawed denominations which you all follow are teaching. You betray yourselves. Clearly your focus is not on the point-> we do not answer for groups only our individual self! Therefore we should be engaged with Scripture and The Holy Spirit to be ready for this time Matt 12:36-37 36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." NKJV I know there are Baptist and Wesleyan Churches that preach racism and when those Churches are brought up to the heads of those denominations they waffle about and say it's up to the individual Churches. But when an individual Church wants to perform Gay marriages THAT'S something that the heads of every denomination unanimously take a stand against. It seems to me that if every Church believes in Christ, that does not unite them. If every Church believes in the work of the Cross, that does not unite them. If every Church believes in serving the poor, visiting the prisoners, in the transforming power of the Holy Spirit that does not unite them! The one thing that seems to me to have the power to unite every Christian is bigotry. Wrong is wrong and right is right -> all 'IS' determined by God Whom we are to be followers of... Jesus did not die on the cross to make sin acceptable but to make able the power of God to once again equip us with His Spirit by new birth... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsukinoRei Posted August 23, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 438 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/02/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2013 I am disgusted by the ignorance and hate displayed in this thread. If I am to 'know them by their fruit' then whatever you people are teaching is nothing to do with God. That's a pretty broad statement ... showing you emotion is more engaged than your head! Whatever denomination I was in and they taught things not in the Word of God- I would quit that group! Love, Steven By those standards there would be no such thing as a truly Christian denomination at all. Certainly not Baptist or Wesleyan. How can it have completely passed so many people by that this Church is standing in defiance of it's own denomination? How then would you judge the entire denomination by the actions of the one Church? And even if their denomination did stand in agreement with them by stating that nothing they teach is aligned with scripture simply because you disagree with this one point places you in defiance with all the things they teach which clearly ARE in line with scripture and even in line with what all the other worldly flawed denominations which you all follow are teaching. You betray yourselves. Clearly your focus is not on the point-> we do not answer for groups only our individual self! Therefore we should be engaged with Scripture and The Holy Spirit to be ready for this time Matt 12:36-37 36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." NKJV I know there are Baptist and Wesleyan Churches that preach racism and when those Churches are brought up to the heads of those denominations they waffle about and say it's up to the individual Churches. But when an individual Church wants to perform Gay marriages THAT'S something that the heads of every denomination unanimously take a stand against. It seems to me that if every Church believes in Christ, that does not unite them. If every Church believes in the work of the Cross, that does not unite them. If every Church believes in serving the poor, visiting the prisoners, in the transforming power of the Holy Spirit that does not unite them! The one thing that seems to me to have the power to unite every Christian is bigotry. Wrong is wrong and right is right -> all 'IS' determined by God Whom we are to be followers of... Jesus did not die on the cross to make sin acceptable but to make able the power of God to once again equip us with His Spirit by new birth... Love, Steven If wrong is wrong and we do not answer to groups but to our individual selves, as you say, then it is wrong to condemn an entire denomination as 'not even a church', or 'walked out on by God!'. It is hypocrisy when so many denominations have, and continue to, fail the test of Holiness and then point fingers at each other. Each time one Church judges another they bring still more judgement on themselves as their own failure to live up to their own standards can only be highlighted by their hypocritical finger pointing. Who in their right mind would ever want to be part of such a dysfunctional family as the Family of God? There is no unity, no love, FAR more focus on sin then grace, there is nothing of the Agape love described in the Bible, there is constant declarations of cultural warfare rather than any kind of peace! There is envy, there is boasting, there is anger. The Church is not patient and it is not kind! The Churches aren't even kind to each other, let alone to the 'least of these' in the world! Jesus prayed that those who came after him would be UNITED, even as He was united in the Father, so that the WORLD WOULD SEE. Well, the world doesn't see. Wonder why that is? What the world is seeing is something hateful to be fled from, and I can't easily disagree with them about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted August 24, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,396 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,568 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted August 24, 2013 If wrong is wrong and we do not answer to groups but to our individual selves, as you say, then it is wrong to condemn an entire denomination as 'not even a church', or 'walked out on by God!'. It is hypocrisy when so many denominations have, and continue to, fail the test of Holiness and then point fingers at each other. Each time one Church judges another they bring still more judgement on themselves as their own failure to live up to their own standards can only be highlighted by their hypocritical finger pointing. Who in their right mind would ever want to be part of such a dysfunctional family as the Family of God? There is no unity, no love, FAR more focus on sin then grace, there is nothing of the Agape love described in the Bible, there is constant declarations of cultural warfare rather than any kind of peace! There is envy, there is boasting, there is anger. The Church is not patient and it is not kind! The Churches aren't even kind to each other, let alone to the 'least of these' in the world! Jesus prayed that those who came after him would be UNITED, even as He was united in the Father, so that the WORLD WOULD SEE. Well, the world doesn't see. Wonder why that is? What the world is seeing is something hateful to be fled from, and I can't easily disagree with them about that. If wrong is wrong and we do not answer to groups but to our individual selves, as you say Rom 14:12-13 12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way. NKJV It appears to be God who says this! then it is wrong to condemn an entire denomination as 'not even a church', or 'walked out on by God!' You seem to think acceptance as not stirring the pot is the way to show love... not according to The Lord 1 John 5:1-5 5 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? NKJV We never condemn- there 'IS' only one Holy Person able to do that Jesus Matt 28:18-20 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. NKJV BUT however we are to exhort one another Heb 3:12-13 12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. NKJV It is hypocrisy when so many denominations have, and continue to, fail the test of Holiness and then point fingers at each other. Each time one Church judges another they bring still more judgement on themselves as their own failure to live up to their own standards can only be highlighted by their hypocritical finger pointing. Granted we are to do this first Matt 7:1-5 7 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. NKJV AND we are to do it so that we can clearly see to exhort others from the peril of sins! Who in their right mind would ever want to be part of such a dysfunctional family as the Family of God? There is no unity, no love, FAR more focus on sin then grace, there is nothing of the Agape love described in the Bible, there is constant declarations of cultural warfare rather than any kind of peace! It is a sad place in The Word of God we are in! 2 Tim 3:1-6 3 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! NKJV AND if you see this as so (so you have posted) then your and my responsibility is to remove the beams from our own eyes that we may be useful to God to aid those who are caught in this web of uselessness! REMEBERING the way will be one of sacrifice and suffering for many have gone this way because of lawlessness Matt 24:9-14 9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. NKJV There is no unity, no love, FAR more focus on sin then grace, there is nothing of the Agape love described in the Bible, there is constant declarations of cultural warfare rather than any kind of peace! There is envy, there is boasting, there is anger. The Church is not patient and it is not kind! The Churches aren't even kind to each other, let alone to the 'least of these' in the world! Jesus prayed that those who came after him would be UNITED, even as He was united in the Father, so that the WORLD WOULD SEE. Well, the world doesn't see. Wonder why that is? What the world is seeing is something hateful to be fled from, and I can't easily disagree with them about that. When we remove the beam from our eyes we will see clearly the sacrifice the The Lord requires of us in this end of time... REMEBERING Luke 12:42-48 42 And the Lord said, "Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has. 45 But if that servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. NKJV We have been given the Person of God to live within us forever... what do you suppose our individual requirement from God 'IS' ? You see God has so isolated us in responsibility to Him that we are without excuse if we do not follow after His Son in this place.... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsukinoRei Posted August 24, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 438 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/02/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 24, 2013 If wrong is wrong and we do not answer to groups but to our individual selves, as you say, then it is wrong to condemn an entire denomination as 'not even a church', or 'walked out on by God!'. It is hypocrisy when so many denominations have, and continue to, fail the test of Holiness and then point fingers at each other. Each time one Church judges another they bring still more judgement on themselves as their own failure to live up to their own standards can only be highlighted by their hypocritical finger pointing. Who in their right mind would ever want to be part of such a dysfunctional family as the Family of God? There is no unity, no love, FAR more focus on sin then grace, there is nothing of the Agape love described in the Bible, there is constant declarations of cultural warfare rather than any kind of peace! There is envy, there is boasting, there is anger. The Church is not patient and it is not kind! The Churches aren't even kind to each other, let alone to the 'least of these' in the world! Jesus prayed that those who came after him would be UNITED, even as He was united in the Father, so that the WORLD WOULD SEE. Well, the world doesn't see. Wonder why that is? What the world is seeing is something hateful to be fled from, and I can't easily disagree with them about that. If wrong is wrong and we do not answer to groups but to our individual selves, as you say Rom 14:12-13 12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way. NKJV It appears to be God who says this! then it is wrong to condemn an entire denomination as 'not even a church', or 'walked out on by God!' You seem to think acceptance as not stirring the pot is the way to show love... not according to The Lord 1 John 5:1-5 5 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? NKJV We never condemn- there 'IS' only one Holy Person able to do that Jesus Matt 28:18-20 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. NKJV BUT however we are to exhort one another Heb 3:12-13 12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. NKJV It is hypocrisy when so many denominations have, and continue to, fail the test of Holiness and then point fingers at each other. Each time one Church judges another they bring still more judgement on themselves as their own failure to live up to their own standards can only be highlighted by their hypocritical finger pointing. Granted we are to do this first Matt 7:1-5 7 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. NKJV AND we are to do it so that we can clearly see to exhort others from the peril of sins! Who in their right mind would ever want to be part of such a dysfunctional family as the Family of God? There is no unity, no love, FAR more focus on sin then grace, there is nothing of the Agape love described in the Bible, there is constant declarations of cultural warfare rather than any kind of peace! It is a sad place in The Word of God we are in! 2 Tim 3:1-6 3 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! NKJV AND if you see this as so (so you have posted) then your and my responsibility is to remove the beams from our own eyes that we may be useful to God to aid those who are caught in this web of uselessness! REMEBERING the way will be one of sacrifice and suffering for many have gone this way because of lawlessness Matt 24:9-14 9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. NKJV There is no unity, no love, FAR more focus on sin then grace, there is nothing of the Agape love described in the Bible, there is constant declarations of cultural warfare rather than any kind of peace! There is envy, there is boasting, there is anger. The Church is not patient and it is not kind! The Churches aren't even kind to each other, let alone to the 'least of these' in the world! Jesus prayed that those who came after him would be UNITED, even as He was united in the Father, so that the WORLD WOULD SEE. Well, the world doesn't see. Wonder why that is? What the world is seeing is something hateful to be fled from, and I can't easily disagree with them about that. When we remove the beam from our eyes we will see clearly the sacrifice the The Lord requires of us in this end of time... REMEBERING Luke 12:42-48 42 And the Lord said, "Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has. 45 But if that servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. NKJV We have been given the Person of God to live within us forever... what do you suppose our individual requirement from God 'IS' ? You see God has so isolated us in responsibility to Him that we are without excuse if we do not follow after His Son in this place.... Love, Steven It really is a puzzle how we can agree and disagree on the same things at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted August 24, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,396 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,568 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted August 24, 2013 It really is a puzzle how we can agree and disagree on the same things at the same time. Here is the individual response in fear and trembling ... that is to be prepared to give an account of our words to His Word, our actions to his actions, our life to His Life.... Remember we have been given the complete understanding of God's Word and we are held in highest of all times accountable for all that is written that is why this requirement of God 2 Tim 2:15-16 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. NKJV we shall know we are doing so by our own life's witness of Him within! 2 Tim 3:16-17 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. NKJV Does my life look like The Lord Jesus'? Am I made able to die to myself and live first to God in obedience and then turn outward to other in that obedience to encourage them to do as well ... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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