Supreme Court to consider adoption case of American Indian girl

[The_Patriot21]

I see them more as a slavery now rejected-sure they gave them their own land-and as long as the US government appeases their demands, their shoved out of site, out of mind. The modern indian, is not the indian of the 1800s, the modern US government, is not the same government as it was then. I would say any debt to the US indians has been repaid, and the government is just appeasing these people, to keep them out of site out of mind. Just my opinion.

[RejectedStone]

Again, they aren't being "kept" anywhere. If anyone isn't happy living on a reservation, they can leave.

[The_Patriot21]

yes, but theyre given no reason to rejected, theyre better paid to stay there, thats my point.

[RejectedStone]

We're not going to agree on this. I think if the Native Americans are happy with the arrangment they have (and the ones that chose to stay apparently are), I see no reason to end this relationship.

We did, after all, steal the rest of their land.

[ayin jade]

Oh boy where to begin.

First off, my husband was born and raised on the navajo reservation. I lived with him (married couple) for two years on the rez as well. So I do understand the conditions.

The indians do not own the land. The government owns it in custody for the indians. That means they cant obtain loans using the land as collateral because the individuals do not own it. It also means that for things like mining operations, the govt leases them out to outsiders, often to the detriment of the tribe, then the govt takes the money and puts it into an account. There has been a scandal involving the govt lack of accurate accounting that lost millions of dollars for the tribes. So they are shortchanged even having the land.

Yes, but they often dont because they get special treatment on their reservations-they got total control of their land, own rules, etc.

Pat, they do not have total control of their land at all. See above.

In my opinion, it's the least the U.S. Government can do, given what happen was done to them.

Yes a lot was done and there are still injustices that need to be dealt with. Not with reparations but with solutions to problems the indians still deal with. For instance, the average life span of an indian is 20 yrs or so lower than the average life span of any other ethnic group in the usa. Infant mortality rates are much higher than other groups in the usa. Alcoholism and unemployment (well over 60% alone) is much higher than anywhere else in the nation. They live in dire poverty and a reservation system that squashes the life out of them.

I see them more as a slavery now rejected-sure they gave them their own land-and as long as the US government appeases their demands, their shoved out of site, out of mind. The modern indian, is not the indian of the 1800s, the modern US government, is not the same government as it was then. I would say any debt to the US indians has been repaid, and the government is just appeasing these people, to keep them out of site out of mind. Just my opinion.

They do not own their land. It can be taken away from them still. For instance the hopis got the government to forcably move navajos who have lived for generations on land and relocated them elsewhere. This was not that long ago, during my lifetime. During yours too pat lol.

I do not think the debt has been repaid. But the past is past and instead of getting reparations, I would rather see the govt help them get solutions to problems.

For instance, along with everything Ive mentioned above, tribes struggle to get businesses to work on the reservation. Because of antiquated laws regarding the reservations, businesses cannot get established. The tribe cannot sell them land and cannot guarantee they will be able to continue their businesses for long since the feds dictate how leases etc are handled.

As another example, in the phoenix area, a drive in movie theater that existed since the 1970s and was well loved by its patrons had to close its doors because the reservation system didnt allow the lease to be renewed because of some funky clause that forbade businesses from continueing to lease the same land after a set amount of years.

These things need to change to enable the indians to be as able as any american to set up businesses and control their lives. control their land. Just removing the reservation system itself cold turkey will cause much harm as they will end up losing everything. But the current system is abominable.

Then on top of it, you have folks thinking indians have it easy and get all sorts of freebies. You should see what life is like on the reservation. Not a single one of you would trade your life for how they live.

[ayin jade]

Again, they aren't being "kept" anywhere. If anyone isn't happy living on a reservation, they can leave.

Easy for you to say. How are they to leave? What should they live on while looking for work outside the rez? The average yearly income alone on the navajo rez was $2000 a few years ago. My hubby and other members of his family encountered racism in hiring practices off the reservation. The stereotype of drunken indian is one that haunts them when they apply for work, even tho his family doesnt drink. This is still a reality in the us.

[ayin jade]

yes, but theyre given no reason to rejected, theyre better paid to stay there, thats my point.

What a joke. They are not paid to stay there at all. They are not better paid at all. On reservations without casinos look to see what the poverty level is, what the annual income is.

[The_Patriot21]

Alright, seems to me weve got off on the wrong foot, and people are taking what Im saying is wrong, so let me clear up some things.

Well, maybe the reservation systems different there then it is up here-weve had several times weve dealt with the indian reservations and they have total control over who goes on their land, why, and when, and even have their own police force. Our companys have to pay them, just to drive a semi across it. Now with that being said, Im not complaining about that, If I was on the reservation and had control over stuff like that, I would to, but these permits, wouldnt be legal, anywhere else in reality. but even if the government owns the land-they have a good deal of the reservations thinking theyre in control, even when theyre really not. I honestly think that the reservations, are just another form of legal bondage, if you ask me.

Now, let me clarify, Im not anti-Indian by any means. I don't know if taking away the reservations cold turkey, is a good idea either, so I agree with you on that jade, what Im saying is the system they have now, is keeping them just as much in bondage now, as it was back when they were put there originally, and they justify it, by giving them so called "special" privilege. Im not blaming the indian here, Im blaming the US government, for the way its treating them, for creating a setup, that on the one hand, gives them "special rights" while on the other, enslaving them. Just removing the reservations altogether- I think your right, would be detrimental, but if there was a better plan to slowly integrate the US indian into normal society, I think it would be beneficial to all, to treat them as equals-and train them to be equals, which by the Bible, they are equals.

[ayin jade]

Well, maybe the reservation systems different there then it is up here-weve had several times weve dealt with the indian reservations and they have total control over who goes on their land, why, and when, and even have their own police force.

The ones here do not have total control on their land. I doubt the ones up there do either. The ones here have tribal police, but they also have to call in the fbi anytime it involves something more than just routine traffic or other crimes involving only the indians. The fbi has overall jurisdiction on the reservations.

Our companys have to pay them, just to drive a semi across it. Now with that being said, Im not complaining about that, If I was on the reservation and had control over stuff like that, I would to, but these permits, wouldnt be legal, anywhere else in reality.

Lets look at this for a moment. The reservation is under federal and state control but the reservations do not get money for their infrastructure. In other words, dont expect the state to pay for the roads there even though you have state license. How do the tribes pay for the upkeep of the roads? Through that permit they charge your company.

This illustrates one of the problems reservations face. In order to get businesses on them, the state charges businesses permits and licensing fees but gives nothing from those to the tribes, so the tribe has to charge for permits too. Many have worked to try and get the state of arizona and likely other states too to stop charging companies so the only fees they face come from the tribe. The states have so far refused. So businesses avoid the reservations as much as possible.

but even if the government owns the land-they have a good deal of the reservations thinking theyre in control, even when theyre really not.

You wouldnt believe what a legal convoluted nightmare some of this is. The reservation system has so much bureaucratic red tape entangled in it that prevents the tribe from doing much. Add into that a local bureaucratic nightmare that rivals some third world governments at times.

I honestly think that the reservations, are just another form of legal bondage, if you ask me.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Now, let me clarify, Im not anti-Indian by any means. I don't know if taking away the reservations cold turkey, is a good idea either, so I agree with you on that jade, what Im saying is the system they have now, is keeping them just as much in bondage now, as it was back when they were put there originally, and they justify it, by giving them so called "special" privilege. Im not blaming the indian here, Im blaming the US government, for the way its treating them, for creating a setup, that on the one hand, gives them "special rights" while on the other, enslaving them. Just removing the reservations altogether- I think your right, would be detrimental, but if there was a better plan to slowly integrate the US indian into normal society, I think it would be beneficial to all, to treat them as equals-and train them to be equals, which by the Bible, they are equals.

My husband and I have discussed this many times and cannot think of a good solution to the reservation system. We both agree that they should be able to be equals without the so called special rights and other reservation issues that go with it.

Those "special rights" as you put it are part of the original treaties the us government made to the foreign governments that are the individual tribes. remember they are nations within our nation.

Ok maybe just maybe you can have a "yo:.

[ayin jade]

Updated articles. One of the comments was significant. Apparently the biological father is only 2% cherokee and not even an official tribal member. Yet that law permits him to disrupt that childs life.

http://news.yahoo.com/high-court-wrestles-indian-adoption-dispute-161249612--politics.html

http://news.yahoo.com/justices-struggle-weighing-american-indian-adoption-case-183032720.html