Baptists Originally Opposed Govt Involvement in Religion

[Adaeze]

I went to an interesting lecture presented by Professor John A. Ragosta. Ragosta argued that, surprisingly enough, many baptists and members of 'dissenting' denominations originally opposed the state's involvement in religion after the revolution. I found this to be interesting. The basic premise was that they were concerned that the government would choose one denomination over another or that they would corrupt the church. Government corruption was one of the main reasons why baptists and methodists left anglican church in the first place.

[The_Patriot21]

Most of the founding fathers, regardless of denomination, were against the government being involved in the church, or any government run church.

[Adaeze]

Yup. Because of the Church of England.

[The_Patriot21]

because of freedom of religion.

[Adaeze]

Well, I meant to say because of the corruption in the church of england as well as the ideals of freedom of religion.

[back2thebible]

the church gave away its freedom when they allowed the government to dictate what could be discussed within its walls.

[GoldenEagle]

I went to an interesting lecture presented by Professor John A. Ragosta. Ragosta argued that, surprisingly enough, many baptists and members of 'dissenting' denominations originally opposed the state's involvement in religion after the revolution. I found this to be interesting. The basic premise was that they were concerned that the government would choose one denomination over another or that they would corrupt the church. Government corruption was one of the main reasons why baptists and methodists left anglican church in the first place.

Perhaps this was a response to the Anglican Church and Roman Catholic Church?

The Decleration of Independence

The Consitution... Pay particular attention to the 1st and 14th ammendments.

Also check this out...

History of Religion in America

Major Protestant denominations in the colonies

Puritans The Puritans came to the New England colonies to escape religious persecution. The Puritans later gave birth to the Baptists and the Congregationalists.

Congregationalists Based on the Calvinist (Reformed) tradition and strictly opposed to external authorities, Congregationalists came to New England and established the Plymouth Colony in 1620.

Methodists The tap root of Methodism was a group of Oxford University students, amongst whom were its founders, John and Charles Wesley. Begun within the Anglican Church, Methodists were not fleeing religious persecution from the Church of England when they came to the Mid-Atlantic colonies in the 1730s and ‘40s.

Lutherans In no other American Christian denomination did national origin play such an important role in its history as the Lutheran Church. Members came from Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and Norway. The Lutherans settled on the East Coast and American Midwest, and celebrated worship services in their native tongues.

Presbyterians Bearing little resemblance to the liturgy, structure, and tradition associated with the Roman Catholic Church, the Presbyterian and Reformed churches share a common origin in the teachings of John Calvin and the 16th century Swiss Reformation.

Quakers Founded in 1647 by English preacher George Fox, the Society of Friends emphasized a direct relationship with God. One’s conscience, not the Bible, was the ultimate authority on morals and actions. William Penn, whose writings about freedom of conscience (while imprisoned in England) formed the basis of religious understanding for Quakers around the world. Penn established what would later be called Pennsylvania, an American religious sanctuary in the late 17th century.

[Mcgyver]

Well historically, there have been what are referred to as "Baptist Distinctives"....these have been distilled over the course of many years as a kind of guideline as to what exactly constitutes a "Baptist".

1. Biblical Authority- The Bible is the final authority in all matters of belief and practice because the Bible is inspired by God and bears the absolute authority of God Himself. Whatever the Bible affirms, Baptists accept as true. No human opinion or decree of any church group can override the Bible. Even creeds and confessions of faith, which attempt to articulate the theology of Scripture, do not carry Scripture's inherent authority. 2 Timothy 3:15-17; 1 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Peter 1:20, 21.

2. Autonomy of the Local Church- The local church is an independent body accountable to the Lord Jesus Christ, the head of the church. All human authority for governing the local church resides within the local church itself. Thus the church is autonomous, or self-governing. No religious hierarchy outside the local church may dictate a church's beliefs or practices. Autonomy does not mean isolation. A Baptist church may fellowship with other churches around mutual interests and in an associational tie, but a Baptist church cannot be a "member" of any other body. Colossians 1:18; 2 Corinthians 8:1-5, 19, 23.

3. Priesthood of the Believer- "Priest" is defined as "one authorized to perform the sacred rites of a religion, especially as a mediator between humans and God." Every believer today is a priest of God and may enter into His presence in prayer directly through our Great High Priest, Jesus Christ. No other mediator is needed between God and people. As priests, we can study God's Word, pray for others, and offer spiritual worship to God. We all have equal access to God-whether we are clergy or laity. 1 Peter 2:5, 9; Revelation 5:9, 10.

4. Two Ordinances- The local church should practice two ordinances: (1) baptism of believers by immersion in water, identifying the individual with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection, and (2) the Lord's Supper, or communion, commemorating His death for our sins and His imminent return. Matthew 28:19, 20; 1 Corinthians 11:23-32.

5. Individual Soul Liberty- Every individual, whether a believer or an unbeliever, has the liberty to choose what he believes is right in the religious realm. No one should be forced to assent to any belief against his will. Baptist have always opposed religious persecution. However, this liberty does not exempt one from responsibility to the Word of God or from accountability to God Himself. Romans 14:5, 12; 2 Corinthians 4:2; Titus 1:9.

6. Saved, Baptized Church Membership- Local church membership is restricted to individuals who give a believable testimony of personal faith in Christ and have publicly identified themselves with Him in believer's baptism. When the members of a local church are believers, a oneness in Christ exists, and the members can endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Acts 2:41-47; 1 Corinthians 12:12; 2 Corinthians 6:14; Ephesians 4:3.

7. Two Offices- The Bible mandates only two offices in the church-pastor and deacon. The three terms-"pastor," "elder," and "bishop," or "overseer"-all refer to the same office. The two offices of pastor and deacon exist within the local church, but not as a hierarchy either outside or within the local church. Pastors and Deacons are to be “Servant Leaders” within the church. 1 Timothy 3:1-13; Acts 20:17-38; Philippians 1:1.

8. Separation of Church and State- God established both the church and the civil government, and He gave each its own distinct sphere of operation. The government's purposes are outlined in Romans 13:1-7 and the church's purposes in Matthew 28:19-20. Neither should control the other, nor should there be an alliance between the two. Christians in a free society can properly influence government towards righteousness, which is not the same as a denomination or group of churches controlling the government. Matthew 22:15-22; Acts 15:17-29.

Most of these go back to our Anabaptist predecessors who suffered persecution at the hands of both the "established/state church", as well as hostile governments.

[GoldenEagle]

Well historically, there have been what are referred to as "Baptist Distinctives"....these have been distilled over the course of many years as a kind of guideline as to what exactly constitutes a "Baptist".

1. Biblical Authority- The Bible is the final authority in all matters of belief and practice because the Bible is inspired by God and bears the absolute authority of God Himself. Whatever the Bible affirms, Baptists accept as true. No human opinion or decree of any church group can override the Bible. Even creeds and confessions of faith, which attempt to articulate the theology of Scripture, do not carry Scripture's inherent authority. 2 Timothy 3:15-17; 1 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Peter 1:20, 21.

2. Autonomy of the Local Church- The local church is an independent body accountable to the Lord Jesus Christ, the head of the church. All human authority for governing the local church resides within the local church itself. Thus the church is autonomous, or self-governing. No religious hierarchy outside the local church may dictate a church's beliefs or practices. Autonomy does not mean isolation. A Baptist church may fellowship with other churches around mutual interests and in an associational tie, but a Baptist church cannot be a "member" of any other body. Colossians 1:18; 2 Corinthians 8:1-5, 19, 23.

3. Priesthood of the Believer- "Priest" is defined as "one authorized to perform the sacred rites of a religion, especially as a mediator between humans and God." Every believer today is a priest of God and may enter into His presence in prayer directly through our Great High Priest, Jesus Christ. No other mediator is needed between God and people. As priests, we can study God's Word, pray for others, and offer spiritual worship to God. We all have equal access to God-whether we are clergy or laity. 1 Peter 2:5, 9; Revelation 5:9, 10.

4. Two Ordinances- The local church should practice two ordinances: (1) baptism of believers by immersion in water, identifying the individual with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection, and (2) the Lord's Supper, or communion, commemorating His death for our sins and His imminent return. Matthew 28:19, 20; 1 Corinthians 11:23-32.

5. Individual Soul Liberty- Every individual, whether a believer or an unbeliever, has the liberty to choose what he believes is right in the religious realm. No one should be forced to assent to any belief against his will. Baptist have always opposed religious persecution. However, this liberty does not exempt one from responsibility to the Word of God or from accountability to God Himself. Romans 14:5, 12; 2 Corinthians 4:2; Titus 1:9.

6. Saved, Baptized Church Membership- Local church membership is restricted to individuals who give a believable testimony of personal faith in Christ and have publicly identified themselves with Him in believer's baptism. When the members of a local church are believers, a oneness in Christ exists, and the members can endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Acts 2:41-47; 1 Corinthians 12:12; 2 Corinthians 6:14; Ephesians 4:3.

7. Two Offices- The Bible mandates only two offices in the church-pastor and deacon. The three terms-"pastor," "elder," and "bishop," or "overseer"-all refer to the same office. The two offices of pastor and deacon exist within the local church, but not as a hierarchy either outside or within the local church. Pastors and Deacons are to be “Servant Leaders” within the church. 1 Timothy 3:1-13; Acts 20:17-38; Philippians 1:1.

8. Separation of Church and State- God established both the church and the civil government, and He gave each its own distinct sphere of operation. The government's purposes are outlined in Romans 13:1-7 and the church's purposes in Matthew 28:19-20. Neither should control the other, nor should there be an alliance between the two. Christians in a free society can properly influence government towards righteousness, which is not the same as a denomination or group of churches controlling the government. Matthew 22:15-22; Acts 15:17-29.

Most of these go back to our Anabaptist predecessors who suffered persecution at the hands of both the "established/state church", as well as hostile governments.

Thanks for sharing very interesting Mcgyver.

[He giveth more grace]

The Danbury Baptist Church was concerned that the Government gave to much credence to any particular church denomination.

Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists

The Final Letter, as Sent

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson

Jan. 1. 1802.