Qnts2 Posted August 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2013 But, salvation is by revelation of this truth. Just a little bit of clarification: Salvation is by coming to Jesus and putting our faith in HIM and to all the things He will tell us to do today, isn't it? How can revelation of the truth in the gospel be salvation? The gospel of Jesus is a recorded events that transpired during the Lord's incarnation time, what is to be revealed there today when it is already written? Ok, you say we must come to Jesus to be saved. Now, some questions. Who is this Jesus? Putting our faith in Him. But Who is He that we should have faith in Him. In order to 'come' to Jesus, we must know Who He is, and what He did, to verify that He is someone we need to come to. This is all contained in the gospels, by witnesses who knew Him, spoke to Him, and saw what He did. Without this historical account, we don't really know Who Jesus is and what He did. What makes Jesus able to offer salvation? Who was He? Does He fulfill the OT prophesies? What did He do? etc etc etc. That is all part of the gospel of salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanh Posted August 19, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 123 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/01/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) Ok, you say we must come to Jesus to be saved. Now, some questions. Who is this Jesus? Putting our faith in Him. But Who is He that we should have faith in Him. In order to 'come' to Jesus, we must know Who He is, and what He did, to verify that He is someone we need to come to. This is all contained in the gospels, by witnesses who knew Him, spoke to Him, and saw what He did. Without this historical account, we don't really know Who Jesus is and what He did. What makes Jesus able to offer salvation? Who was He? Does He fulfill the OT prophesies? What did He do? etc etc etc. That is all part of the gospel of salvation. 1. Jesus Christ is the Almighty Lord God of all ages and in eternity to eternity who, at the moment, is unseen to all yet accessible through His own means. 2. As I am saying, Jesus Christ is the Almighty One, the creator of the heavens and the earth and the universe and that of all things. 3. Now my turn, how do you come to know Jesus? Is Jesus Christ the bible by and through which you are trying all your best to know Jesus from? Edited August 19, 2013 by Sanh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted August 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2013 Ok, you say we must come to Jesus to be saved. Now, some questions. Who is this Jesus? Putting our faith in Him. But Who is He that we should have faith in Him. In order to 'come' to Jesus, we must know Who He is, and what He did, to verify that He is someone we need to come to. This is all contained in the gospels, by witnesses who knew Him, spoke to Him, and saw what He did. Without this historical account, we don't really know Who Jesus is and what He did. What makes Jesus able to offer salvation? Who was He? Does He fulfill the OT prophesies? What did He do? etc etc etc. That is all part of the gospel of salvation. 1. Jesus Christ is the Almighty Lord God of all ages and in eternity to eternity who, at the moment, is unseen to all yet accessible through His own means. 2. As I am saying, Jesus Christ is the Almighty One, the creator of the heavens and the earth and the universe and that of all things. 3. Now my turn, how do you come to know Jesus? Is Jesus Christ the bible by and through which you are trying all your best to know Jesus from? The way I came to know Who Jesus was, was by reading the NT. I read Matthew, and part of Mark when I became convinced that Jesus was the Messiah prophesied in the OT/Tenakh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanh Posted August 19, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 123 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/01/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2013 The way I came to know Who Jesus was, was by reading the NT. I read Matthew, and part of Mark when I became convinced that Jesus was the Messiah prophesied in the OT/Tenakh. May I ask you if the Lord Jesus Christ, to you, is the bible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted August 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2013 The way I came to know Who Jesus was, was by reading the NT. I read Matthew, and part of Mark when I became convinced that Jesus was the Messiah prophesied in the OT/Tenakh. May I ask you if the Lord Jesus Christ, to you, is the bible? No, Jesus is not the bible, but God wrote the bible. 1 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. At the time of Jesus, the children of Israel both then and today, devide the OT differently then Christianity. The first five books of Moses are the first scroll/book called the Torah. The second scroll/book is the writings of the prophets, called the Neviim. And the final scroll/book contains Psalms, Song of songs, etc, and is called the writings/Ketuvim. We can see in Luke 24, two references to the OT using the common divisions of the day and still used by Judaism today. Jesus expounded on the OT about the scriptures concerning Himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanh Posted August 19, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 123 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/01/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) May I ask you if the Lord Jesus Christ, to you, is the bible? No, Jesus is not the bible, but God wrote the bible. 1 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. Since Jesus is not the bible, how then do you know Jesus who is alive and real and is living and existing on His own ways? Edited August 19, 2013 by Sanh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted August 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2013 May I ask you if the Lord Jesus Christ, to you, is the bible? No, Jesus is not the bible, but God wrote the bible. 1 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. Since Jesus is not the bible, how then do you know Jesus who is alive and real and is living and existing on His own ways? How do we know Moses existed, lived and was real? If you know nothing about Jesus, then the NT tells you about Jesus. Who He is and what He did. Without that information, there is no starting place. The gospel of salvation begins and ends with Jesus. The truth of the bible is a Holy Spirit revelation, so what it says is revealed as truth. You are starting from a place where a person knows about Jesus, and then the revelation. Many people in the world know nothing about Jesus, so either someone tells them about Jesus, or the bible tells about Jesus, and for some, the Holy Spirit tells about Jesus in a dream or vision. This thread is discussing the starting point of the OT, so a person knows of the prophesies of a coming Messiah, sent by God. Now, they must find out about Jesus and decide if He is the prophesied Messiah. That is in the NT, and then revelation of what they have read shows Jesus to be the Messiah, and Lord. For me, I knew the OT was true, and while reading the NT, I realized the NT was an extension of the OT, and the OT and NT were actually one book from God. I realized Jesus was the prophesied Messiah, and at that point, I had to choose whether to make Jesus my Messiah and Lord, or to reject Him. But the problem of rejecting Him was since the OT and NT were actually one book, I then would need to reject the OT. I am not unique in this process, as many Jewish people have gone thru the same process. Reading the NT to find it was a continuation of the OT and true. And discovering the prophesied Messiah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeinChrist Posted August 24, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 192 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 635 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/29/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 24, 2013 As I stated we see Jesus speaking in Verse 16 and 17; and He refers to The Father and the Holy Spirit in verse 16; them Himself in verse 17. To say this is only God the Father speaking of Himself is really taking it out of contexts. The NAS 16) Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret. From the time it took place, I was there. And now the LORD GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit. 17) Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: I am the LORD your G od, who teaches you to profit. Who leads you in the way you should go. Isaiah 48:16-17 We know it is Jesus speaking here for we see in John 8:58; He (Jesus) calls Himself the I Am. Some version use other words but this can not be the case because the Jews wanted to stone Jesus for making Himself equal to God, John 8:59; 10:33. The Father glorifies the Son in Psalms 2:7,12 and Proverbs 30:4. For we see at least two if not all three members in Genesis 18-19. In verse 16, "Me" refers to the flesh born out of Mary, that son/man was the one sent to the world by the Lord God and to that same son/man dwelt the Spirit of the Lord God. The son which Mary brought forth is not a part of Godhood of the Lord God because it is just a flesh like us and same is through the power of the HS. That man said "the I Am" because the fullness of the Lord God dwelt in him during that time and "the I Am" refers to the Lord God whose Spirit is inside that son/man. There are only two beings involved in the incarnation of the Lord God, the man brought forth by Mary and the Lord God himself, the previous is not part of Godhood since God is only one. On the other hand, the word Jesus is one of the names of the Lord God and same is just attached to the man brought forth by Mary upon God's decree to his prophets. 1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. 14) And the Word made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory of the Only Begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:1, 14 John tells us here in his gospel that Jesus is God come in the flesh. Paul adds more to this in Philippians 2:5-11. John's Gospel even states that Jesus said that the Father is greater than I (John 14:28); but we see from the following verse Jesus is speaking of the fact that He was made lower than the angels by becoming Man/Flesh: But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man. Hebrews 2:9 We also see in Hebrews 1:6-8 that not only do the angel worship Jesus, but God says to Him, Your throne O God is for ever and ever. (Psalms 45:6-7; 110:1). The writer of Hebrews also show us that Jesus/the Word was require to have a body: Wherefore when He cometh into the world, He saith, Sacrifices and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared Me. Hebrews 10:5 Job tells us that in order for us to stand before God the Father, Someone had to be both God and Flesh or a daysman, so that He might understand both sides or be a Mediator: Neither is there any Daysman betwixt us, that might lay HIs hand upon us both. Job 9:33 Jesus is the Daysman, that Job desired, who is God and Man, and so can understand both sides. We see Jesus as the Man who is that Mediator (I Timothy 2:5) but we also see that He is God in that Paul states that a Mediator needs two parties but states God is one--Now a Mediator is not a Mediator of one, but God is One. Galatians 3:20 In other words Jesus our Mediator who is Man is also One of the members of the Godhead (Colossians 2:9) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. I Timothy 3:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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