evolution definition and other issues

[asper]

I don’t care if people who don’t believe in the God of the Bible, don’t believe the Bible.

At least they are consistent in what they believe.

 

The Bible testifies of itself that it is true. Why water it down and deny what is said just because it is difficult in certain areas to explain because of theories that are thought to be true by the majority?

 

2Ti 2:24  And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25  In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26  And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

1Th 2:13  For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

 

1Pe 2:2  As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

 

1Pe 2:8  And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

 

Re 1:1  The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2  Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

 

Pr 30:5  Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

 

2Pe 1:19  We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20  Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21  For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

 

God bless,

Tony

[Guest ninhao]

 

The order of creation is actually not the same. The first living thing God created, or ordered the Earth to create depending on how you read it, was land vegetation including trees and seed-bearing plants. According to evolution the first life was probably water-dwelling, and seed-bearing plants are certainly much further down the line than the first life or even the first plant life. Then God created the Moon, which we are pretty sure was created by a gigantic asteroid impact, which would probably have killed all life on Earth as the Earth was essentially a giant molten ball that resembled a semi-liquid rather than a solid at the time (held together by gravity), because of all the heat. 

 

Then God creates all water-dwelling organisms, along with the birds of the sky. The next day God creates land animals. Well, according to evolution the birds of the sky and some water dwelling organisms like whales, all evolved from land animals which God didn't create yet. 

 

At least, if we go by Genesis 1 and exclude chapter 2, humans were made after the rest of creation. We are the new kids on the block, and unless we expect the Bible to go into details which I think is unreasonable, that is a fairly accurate (perhaps the only accurate) piece of the creation order that evolution agrees with. 

 

 

The order of the evolutionary model and the Genesis account aren't the same but this shouldn't make non believers discount Creationism nor make believers dismiss the evolution model out of hand. The Genesis account gives us a view of God bringing the Universe into being but it isn't a scientific account of how He did it, nor a dated historical account of every organisms' beginnings. Genesis shouldn't be viewed this way imo.

 

As aside; the Moon creation is interesting as you say. I assume in the period after the Moon was formed ( according to the scientific model ) that the Earths atmosphere was extremely dense from hydrothermal activity etc. Possibly the Sun and the Moon were not clearly visible during this period and God enabled the clearance at a later time ( ~ 4000 Ma ) so they would "rule over the day and over the night". It,s interesting to ponder these things what do you think ?

[thomas t]

 

The order of the evolutionary model and the Genesis account aren't the same [...] The Genesis account gives us a view of God bringing the Universe into being but it isn't a scientific account of how He did it, nor a dated historical account of every organisms' beginnings. Genesis shouldn't be viewed this way imo.

Hello Ninhao,

I also think that Genesis is not a scientific account for its first purpose. However, the correct order of things is what we expect from a true narrative account, as well, wouldn't you agree?

Thomas

[Diatheosis]

Taking that the Bible is not a scientific hand-book in this regard, I don't find it that perplexing it does not perfectly match the currently accepted models, but in general lays out interesting frames for creating. Of course, will the evolution theory or its variables hold time and for how long is another question. That has been the trend with many scientific models that they have been proven erroneous. Are we now on a solid ground as to what is accepted and how to be sure about that? Yeah, I know self-correcting. Well, it better be. At least so far that has been needed more than once

 

That said, I have nothing against science itself as a way to increase understanding, but more towards its supposed authority in what life is really about. Nonbelievers on the other hand believe in the opposite. But God's Word is amazing treasure and I am sure many things it reveals can at some point be also scientifically proven right. Not that this as such was the actual meaning of it, but more inevitable by-product as I do not believe it should or can be dismissed only as a product of over active imagination of tribal cult that lived long ago. I have seen God's Word in action too many times, yet I am a minor brother in Crhist.

[Guest]

The Problem Begins

 

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ. Colossians 2:8 (NIV)

 

When Men Try To Fit Mankind

 

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Genesis 1:27-28 (ESV)

 

Into God's Universe Without Giving God His Due

 

For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else. Isaiah 45:18 (NASB)

 

~

 

Taking that the Bible is not a scientific hand-book in this regard, I don't find it that perplexing it does not perfectly match the currently accepted models, but in general lays out interesting frames for creating. Of course, will the evolution theory or its variables hold time and for how long is another question. That has been the trend with many scientific models that they have been proven erroneous. Are we now on a solid ground as to what is accepted and how to be sure about that? Yeah, I know self-correcting. Well, it better be. At least so far that has been needed more than once

 

That said, I have nothing against science itself as a way to increase understanding, but more towards its supposed authority in what life is really about. Nonbelievers on the other hand believe in the opposite. But God's Word is amazing treasure and I am sure many things it reveals can at some point be also scientifically proven right. Not that this as such was the actual meaning of it, but more inevitable by-product as I do not believe it should or can be dismissed only as a product of over active imagination of tribal cult that lived long ago. I have seen God's Word in action too many times, yet I am a minor brother in Christ.

 

 

~

 

One Way To Stand

 

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. Matthew 7:24-25

 

And Millions Of Ways To Fall

 

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. Matthew 7:26-27

 

~

 

Who's Ambassador Do You Choose To Be

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. Matthew 12:30

 

Who's

 

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:20

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Joe

[Guest]

You are forming unnecessary battles between Atheists and Christians and the age of the Earth shouldn't be placed as a stumbling block. BTW How does an old Earth weaken the Creation account ?

 

 

~

 

Beloved Is Christ So Weak

 

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

 

That He Lied

 

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. Genesis 2:1-3

 

About His Sabbath

 

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

 

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 29:8-11

 

And About His New Creation Yet To Come

 

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Revelation 21:1-5

 

And About The Absolute Need

 

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:20-22

 

For Redemption

 

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

 

And

 

What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. Matthew 10:27

 

Just Where

 

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

 

Is The Battle Line Drawn

 

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

 

Anyway

 

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

 

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:12-17

 

~

 

So Your

 

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Hebrews 11:3

 

Brothers Believe

 

By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. Hebrew 11:4-5

 

Does That Mean They Are Wrong

 

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. Hebrew 11:6-7

 

And Should Deny The Power Of Jesus

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

 

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:25-29

 

While Putting The Philosophies Of Evil Men

 

Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? Isaiah 45:9

 

Ahead Of The Word Of The LORD

 

By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. Psalms 33:6

 

Nay Dear One, Say It Ain't

 

Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. Mark 8:38

 

So

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest ninhao]

 

 

The order of the evolutionary model and the Genesis account aren't the same [...] The Genesis account gives us a view of God bringing the Universe into being but it isn't a scientific account of how He did it, nor a dated historical account of every organisms' beginnings. Genesis shouldn't be viewed this way imo.

Hello Ninhao,

I also think that Genesis is not a scientific account for its first purpose. However, the correct order of things is what we expect from a true narrative account, as well, wouldn't you agree?

Thomas

 

 

No Thomas I don't agree because the order every organism was brought into being isn't important, really. The Genesis account may realistically overlap the Creation days to give a portable summary of the account. The narrative is true regardless of the precise order. 

[Guest ninhao]

Taking that the Bible is not a scientific hand-book in this regard, I don't find it that perplexing it does not perfectly match the currently accepted models, but in general lays out interesting frames for creating. Of course, will the evolution theory or its variables hold time and for how long is another question. That has been the trend with many scientific models that they have been proven erroneous. Are we now on a solid ground as to what is accepted and how to be sure about that? Yeah, I know self-correcting. Well, it better be. At least so far that has been needed more than once

 

That said, I have nothing against science itself as a way to increase understanding, but more towards its supposed authority in what life is really about. Nonbelievers on the other hand believe in the opposite. But God's Word is amazing treasure and I am sure many things it reveals can at some point be also scientifically proven right. Not that this as such was the actual meaning of it, but more inevitable by-product as I do not believe it should or can be dismissed only as a product of over active imagination of tribal cult that lived long ago. I have seen God's Word in action too many times, yet I am a minor brother in Crhist.

 

Well said Brother Diatheosis. There are still many mysteries ( hypotheses ) that will be exposed in the evolution model and it isn't nearly complete. The earth has changed so dramatically since it was Created and we are still learning best ways to interpret data, God's Word will be dismissed by people while they remain in unbelief this shouldn't surprise us. We need to remember the ultimate goal when interacting with people I think.

 

Joh 3:16-17  For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.  (17)  For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

 

Mar 1:15  "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!"

 

 ( A note to Brother FresnoJoe ( I hope you are well as can be expected ). Christ is ever strong amen !  )

 

[Guest]

.... our the ultimate goal when interacting....

 

John 3:16-17  For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

 

Mark 1:15  "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!"

 

 

Amen~!

 

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:20

[thomas t]

No Thomas I don't agree because the order every organism was brought into being isn't important, really. The Genesis account may realistically overlap the Creation days to give a portable summary of the account. The narrative is true regardless of the precise order. 

 

Good morning Ninhao,

 

I believe that every single word of what He sais is important. Even such a tiny detail as an order of things. Every single word from our heavenly father counts.

Overlapping - if you can show that the amount of work of each Creation day overlapped with something, ok, please go ahead...

However, God's word is even for uneducated children to read. "let the little children come". Why not keep our interpretation easy, I'm asking myself.

 

Later on in the Bible, Paul gives importance to a precise order of creational proceeding (1. Cor. 11:9).

 

Thomas