Guest shiloh357 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Two Israels Romans 9:6 (NASB95) 6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; All Israel Israel Bible! That verse is simply saying not all of the children of Israel are saved. What it doesn't say is that Gentiles who are saved become members of Israel or a second Israel. You are assuming what isn't actually in the verse. Galatians 6:13-16 (NASB95) 13 For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh. 14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. The "Israel of God" are Jewish believers in Jesus, not Gentile believers. Then Galatians 3:28 is false? Galatians 3:28 (NASB95) 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. John, all that verse is saying is that IN Christ there is no advantage or disadvantage to anyone based ethnicity, gender or social status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 13, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Matthew 13 is essentially Jesus' State of the Kingdom Address. And he states in parabolic language that the faith (Old Testament Judaism) was hijacked and compromised as far back as Exodus 18. This is when the Sanhedrin that convicted the Holy One of Israel to death and turned him over to the pagans to do their bidding were originally formed. You will note the complete lack of approval from the LORD or even his being consulted. A thing which cost the Hebrews dearly in the ruse of Gibeon. The compromises of monarchy (1 Samuel 8) and the compromise of Solomon's Temple (2 Samuel 7) continued Judaism down a path where it was seldom ever in accord with the Lord until the end of the Old Covenant. Even if the end time is a long way off... it grows nearer every passing day. Is it not high time we started doing things truly the LORD's way? Preparing believers for what the Bible says is about to come? Taking the historic evidence of failure over time as evidence that the way we clung to all these centuries are man's ways rather than God's? When the Son of man returns... will he find faith on the earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 13, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Two Israels Romans 9:6 (NASB95) 6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; All Israel Israel Bible! That verse is simply saying not all of the children of Israel are saved. What it doesn't say is that Gentiles who are saved become members of Israel or a second Israel. You are assuming what isn't actually in the verse. Galatians 6:13-16 (NASB95) 13 For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh. 14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. The "Israel of God" are Jewish believers in Jesus, not Gentile believers. Then Galatians 3:28 is false? Galatians 3:28 (NASB95) 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. John, all that verse is saying is that IN Christ there is no advantage or disadvantage to anyone based ethnicity, gender or social status. Then why distinguish Jewish believers from Gentile believers in one of your defenses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 And did you read Ephesians 2:11 ff ? I did. What is at that you think we are take away from that passage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 13, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 You and others may not want to see it for what it is. I get that. But you have yet to disprove any of the scripture I cited with scripture. You only offer opinion (so far). The Bible says we are grafted into the already existing Olive Tree. Romans 11:16-26 and calls it "all Israel." After the distinguishing of Roman 9:6 where Paul states that unbelieving Israel is not "all Israel." Scripture and scripture. Show me scripture that proves this wrong. Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 13, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 And did you read Ephesians 2:11 ff ? I did. What is at that you think we are take away from that passage? Do you understand what it means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 13, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Galatians 6:16 (NASB95) 16 And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. Should have also said "and the Gentiles of God." Is that not the way you are interpreting this verse to mean just the Jewish believers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 13, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Romans 10:12 (NASB95) 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 13, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Understand. I am not here to win a contest. I just want the truth to be shown and unless you can disprove it with scripture, the scriptures I have shown must be received authoritatively (not at all because I believe it... but because it is in keeping with God's word). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Galatians 6:16 (NASB95) 16 And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. Should have also said "and the Gentiles of God." Is that not the way you are interpreting this verse to mean just the Jewish believers? "Israel" is NEVER spiritualized to refer to, or include Gentiles anywhere in the New Testament. Paul includes the "Israel of God" (Jewish believers) in his comments. He already included the Gentiles and he also mentioned the Jewish believers who are the true "Israel of God." There is NO exegetical basis for claiming that "Israel of God" includes Gentiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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