EnochBethany Posted February 26, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 99 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 26, 2014 It is a theory because "habitual" does not occur in the text. How can one say that one does something every day, yet it is not a habit? Now first we have a theory, that it is habitual (not in text). So the text is changed from "does not sin" to "does not habitually sin." Then we have another theory that habitual refers to a lifestyle. So the text is changed from "does not sin" to "Does not have a sinful lifestyle." Next we have a theory that lifestyle means unrepentant over the lifestyle. So the text is changed from "does not sin" to "Does not have a sinful lifestyle for which there is no repentance." Next we have a theory that the text means enjoyment. So the text is changed from "does not sin" to "Does not have a sinful lifestyle for which there is no repentance, but the sin is enjoyed." Is it not a stretch to add all that to "does not sin"? If one watches porn & lusts over the images every day, is that not a habitual sin, regardless of conviction and/or remorse? Your post: "But habitual, continuous practice of sin carries with the strong connotation of someone who is unrepentant about how they are living. If I can make a habit of daily viewing porn, and feel no conviction about it, no remorse? If can live that way and enjoy it, I am not born of God, according to I John 3:9. Same goes for any other kind of sexual immorality, drunkness, lying, stealing/cheating... If I can live in sin and enjoy it, I am not a believer." Where does 1 John 3:9 talk about living in sin & enjoying? It says ASV, "Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God." Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps this might be speaking about the New Nature which is the only thing begotten of God in a Christian? As it says in Rom 7, It is no longer I that sin, but sin dwelling in me. "15 For that which I do I know not: for not what I would, that do I practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 But if what I would not, that I do, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 It is a theory because "habitual" does not occur in the text. It is in the Greek. How can one say that one does something every day, yet it is not a habit? That's just it. In the Greek, John is talking about a lifestyle of sin, a "practice" of sin. The NASB translates the Greek correctly. Now first we have a theory, that it is habitual (not in text). So the text is changed from "does not sin" to "does not habitually sin." Then we have another theory that habitual refers to a lifestyle. So the text is changed from "does not sin" to "Does not have a sinful lifestyle." Next we have a theory that lifestyle means unrepentant over the lifestyle. So the text is changed from "does not sin" to "Does not have a sinful lifestyle for which there is no repentance." Next we have a theory that the text means enjoyment. So the text is changed from "does not sin" to "Does not have a sinful lifestyle for which there is no repentance, but the sin is enjoyed." No, we have not changed the text. Those who make a practice of sin are those who live in sin without repentace, who have no moral compunction about sin. it is a lifestlye. I am not changing the text. I am simply elaborating on the meaning of the Greek word for "commit." Where does 1 John 3:9 talk about living in sin & enjoying? That is the spirit of the text in that someone who practices sin is someone who does so because at some level they tend to enjoy the sin they practice. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps this might be speaking about the New Nature which is the only thing begotten of God in a Christian? No, because in context, Paul is telling believers how to spot false believers from genuine believers. In John's day, there were false teachers and heretics infiltrating the congregations and leading people astray. How to know those who follow Jesus vs. those who simply give lip service and how to spot false teachers is in how they live. If they are living a sinful life on a regular basis, if they are practicing sin, that is a indication that they are not born of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alien224 Posted February 27, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,762 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 869 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/09/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/24/1964 Share Posted February 27, 2014 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. We will never try as we may, to be sinless here on earth in our carnal bodies. That is why we have the Blessed Hope in Heaven in which we will be perfected (no more sin, sorrow or death, sickness etc) All will be made new and old things will pass away. Yes, we should strive to be sinless; however Jesus knew we were just not capable of perfection that is why he took on the sins of the world S he hung on a cross bleeding, suffering and dieing for our sins. If we could reach a place in life in which we could become without sin, why would we need Jesus? I am so Glad Jesus died for me! Left to myself I am a bumbling mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alien224 Posted February 27, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,762 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 869 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/09/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/24/1964 Share Posted February 27, 2014 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. We will never try as we may, to be sinless here on earth in our carnal bodies. That is why we have the Blessed Hope in Heaven in which we will be perfected (no more sin, sorrow or death, sickness etc) All will be made new and old things will pass away. Yes, we should strive to be sinless; however Jesus knew we were just not capable of perfection that is why he took on the sins of the world S he hung on a cross bleeding, suffering and dieing for our sins. If we could reach a place in life in which we could become without sin, why would we need Jesus? I am so Glad Jesus died for me! Left to myself I am a bumbling mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheniy Posted February 27, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 223 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 27 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 27, 2014 A few years back I went to a prayer meeting. God's presence broke in where it felt tangible and I was on my knees crying before the Lord and He gave me a vision. I saw a 6 and a 7. I immedietly knew what it meant, 6 being the number of man and seven being spiritual perfection, it was how I viewed myself. I viewed myself as a sinner struggling for righteousness. But then, God spoke to my heart loud to where it almost startled me and said NO! and Showed me a 7 and an 8. then He said, You are not a sinner striving for righteousness, I've made you righteous now your stepping into eternity. This was such a huge shift in my thinking. That is really cool. And IMHO, Christians in general have a habit of letting the flesh take over, like every day. They are like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. Great analogy. So true. I think that there is definitely the potential to walk through life without sinning. In fact, Someone already has done just that. As His disciples, we should learn from him and follow his example, to walk in the light as He is in the light. He sent us the Holy Spirit to lead and counsel us in this, as well. If we were to fix our eyes on Jesus and accept the leading of the Holy Spirit in every single moment of our lives, we could potentially live a sinless life. However, if we were ever to stop and notice our own position of sinlessness, then we would have to have taken our eyes (focus) off of Jesus and put them on ourselves. This, I believe, is the first mistake Adam and Eve made in the Garden, which resulted in their fall into sin. Therefore, he who claims to be without sin deceives himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnochBethany Posted February 27, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 99 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 27, 2014 And IMHO, Christians in general have a habit of letting the flesh take over, like every day. They are like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. Great analogy. So true. I think that there is definitely the potential to walk through life without sinning. In fact, Someone already has done just that. As His disciples, we should learn from him and follow his example, to walk in the light as He is in the light. He sent us the Holy Spirit to lead and counsel us in this, as well. If we were to fix our eyes on Jesus and accept the leading of the Holy Spirit in every single moment of our lives, we could potentially live a sinless life. However, if we were ever to stop and notice our own position of sinlessness, then we would have to have taken our eyes (focus) off of Jesus and put them on ourselves. This, I believe, is the first mistake Adam and Eve made in the Garden, which resulted in their fall into sin. Therefore, he who claims to be without sin deceives himself. "potentially live a sinless life." An escape from temptation is always available, but in many ways we all stumble. Your eyes on the Lord Jesus thing is so important. The Chr life is like Peter walking on the water. W/ great faith he launched forth. (The life which I live, I live in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness comes by the law, then Christ died for naught.) But then Peter took his eyes off the Lord Jesus & looked at the waves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheniy Posted February 27, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 223 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 27 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 27, 2014 Your eyes on the Lord Jesus thing is so important. The Chr life is like Peter walking on the water. W/ great faith he launched forth. (The life which I live, I live in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness comes by the law, then Christ died for naught.) But then Peter took his eyes off the Lord Jesus & looked at the waves! I was thinking of Peter on the water, as well. If I take my eyes off of Jesus, I start to sink. Yet, He is always there to grab me when I cry out to Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnochBethany Posted February 27, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 99 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 27, 2014 "It is a theory because 'habitual' does not occur in the text" Retort: "It is in the Greek." Reply, Here is the Greek: "πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει" πᾶς = everyone ὁ the ὁ γεγεννημένος = the one begotten ἐκ = out of ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ = out of (the) God οὐχ = not ἁμαρτάνει = sins οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει = does not sin. No word that means habitual occurs. ἁμαρτάνει is a present tense verb, and the present tense may be sometimes used where the action is habitual. I rule out that possible usage because in fact Christians do habitually sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnochBethany Posted February 27, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 99 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 27, 2014 Your eyes on the Lord Jesus thing is so important. The Chr life is like Peter walking on the water. W/ great faith he launched forth. (The life which I live, I live in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness comes by the law, then Christ died for naught.) But then Peter took his eyes off the Lord Jesus & looked at the waves! I was thinking of Peter on the water, as well. If I take my eyes off of Jesus, I start to sink. Yet, He is always there to grab me when I cry out to Him. Yes, He does not let us drown! A gracious & wonderful Savior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 "It is a theory because 'habitual' does not occur in the text" Retort: "It is in the Greek." Reply, Here is the Greek: "πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει" πᾶς = everyone ὁ the ὁ γεγεννημένος = the one begotten ἐκ = out of ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ = out of (the) God οὐχ = not ἁμαρτάνει = sins οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει = does not sin. No word that means habitual occurs. ἁμαρτάνει is a present tense verb, and the present tense may be sometimes used where the action is habitual. I rule out that possible usage because in fact Christians do habitually sin. Well that just shows how little you understand about the Greek. Hamartanein is in the present active infinitive which refers to continuously sinning. In conection to poieo, it means that one who is born of God does not habitually sin. I think you and I differ on the meaning of "habitual sin." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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