Enoch2021 Posted March 1, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Enoch2021: Presume was intended...but that was an aside. As to the "conundrum" it is my belief that each creative pronouncement imbued God's laws into the creation processes ordained. I certainly agree on the 1rst not so sure on the timing of the 2nd...however, it is obvious that our interpretation of Genesis 1 differs, considerably, but not as to the main point. Though you dismiss the "fiats" they are strikingly plain to me as is the structure of the passage. And yes, it was accidently on purpose that I did not respond to your multiple choice questions, as you did on my response regarding "dust". Hardly important in the overall. I simply came here to discuss varying views and to defend my opinions, interpretations, and thoughts...and perhaps in the process consider other perspectives. Your new thread on "Spiral Galaxies" I trust many will find engaging, I don't want to get caught up in merry go-round arguments where both sides can debate till "the cows come home". I may be one of the few that believes that after sufficient study "scientists" will come to appropriate conclusions. I noted that you were in the military and I thank you for your service to this country and us. =========================================================================================== And yes, it was accidently on purpose that I did not respond to your multiple choice questions, as you did on my response regarding "dust". Yes I did respond to the "dust" and showed you clearly how you took it out of context (in which I was replying to Sheniy) dealing with a Specific scenario with HUMANS. When you continued down the Quibbling (Fallacy) Road I dismissed it. I may be one of the few that believes that after sufficient study "scientists" will come to appropriate conclusions. The only "scientific" conclusions about the past will be...... as they've always been: Extrapolations from Assumptions/Stories/ Conjectures/ and Fables I noted that you were in the military and I thank you for your service to this country and us. You are Welcome Sir Enoch2021 - Thanks for the info on Quotes however when I hit the quote button it simply bounces me right down to the reply box. Yes, You're still Good. Just scroll up into the message that you're replying to.....Highlight Then Copy whatever you need then scroll down and paste it into your reply box. Then Highlight it again and hit the ( " ) Icon just beneath My Media....then your off and running. Hit preview post to see how it looks then adjust as necessary. I can't copy and paste from my email folders either? Anyway, makes posting a bit laborious but we'll survive...Thanks. Yep, had that same problem myself. You need to download FireFox or a similar Browser....that will hook you right up!! Hope it helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnochBethany Posted March 2, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 99 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 2, 2014 I was under the impression that God inspired men to write the Bible, and concerning the opening chapters of Genesis, those men just might have been Sumerian, or Akkadian. Ah, the term "inspired," inspiration." It is a misnomer used for so long that we are stuck with it. "Inspired" is a faulty translation of theopneustos in 1 Tim 3:16: πᾶσα γραφὴ θεόπνευστος = all scripture (is) inspired by God, better: all scripture is God-breathed. θε = God (stem, theos) ό = connecting vowel πνευ- = breath (σ)τος = having been X-ed, verbal adjective There is no "in" in the term translated "inspired." The idea is expired, breathed out. The picture is of God breathing out the material written. Thus, "inspiration" as a theological term, does not refer to men, but the written product, scripture. So, to speak of men being inspired is a misleading term. Of course men were used to pen the scripture; it is probable that in many cases a prophet dictated to a scribe who wrote it down (Tertius in Romans 16:22). Moses wrote Genesis. And much of what is in Genesis, only God could know. We can speculate about how God revealed it to Moses, about human sources of info that Moses had. But it is largely just speculation. 2 Pet 1:21 "For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit." Moved, as in motivated, or inspired?2 Tim 3:16 Greek: pasa graphe theopneustos kai opheliomos pros didaskalian, pros elegmon, pros epanorthosin, pros paideian ten en dikaiosune, Analyzed Literal: All Scripture [is] God-breathed and [is] beneficial for teaching [or, doctrine], for verification [or, reproof], for correcting faults, for instruction in righteousness [or, the behavior that God requires], Amplified: Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, [and] for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God’s will in thought, purpose, and action), (Amplified Bible - Lockman) KJV: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Phillips: All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the faith and correcting error, for re-setting the direction of a man's life and training him in good living. (Phillips: Touchstone) Wuest: Every scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for teaching, for conviction, for improvement, for training with respect to righteousness (Eerdmans) Young's Literal: every Writing is God-breathed, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for setting aright, for instruction that is in righteousness ... Other translations - God-breathed (YLT) breathed out by God (ESV) divinely inspired (Darby) For the whole Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Geneva) ...http://www.preceptaustin.org/2_timothy_316-17.htm And given a choice between inspiration and "psychography," I'm "stuck" with the former. The point is that it is scripture which is expired, not men. (We don't picture men coming out of a mouth, but scripture coming out.) I never heard of the term psychography before. Did you coin it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnochBethany Posted March 2, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 99 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 2, 2014 Enochbethany wrote: It hath been said by men of new: "This is mere assertion....any laws were suspended". Does anyone have a Bible passage where any such thing as "scientific law" is mentioned? I made the silly assumption that there was in fact some order to the earth and universe. I foolishly believed God to be the creator of order, logic, and "laws" (science & nature) that we mere humans could come to discern. I believed, again foolishly, that the various disciplines with their associated "laws" were not arbitrary. Jeremiah 33:25 ... Job 38:33, actually it is interesting that Science, it's adherents, upholds the "regularity" of scientific law but I presume that many Christians believe God created a universe of disorder, chaos, and arbitrariness. Interesting.... =========================================================================================== Are you Attempting to somehow refute my namesake? Does anyone have a Bible passage where any such thing as "scientific law" is mentioned? Well technically, EnochBethany is right... THE WORD doesn't Specifically mention "Scientific Laws"; but those are just word games. Even without the Jeremiah Passage everyone intuitively knows that there is an "order" to things. If there weren't, there would be No "science," discoveries, or LIFE for that matter....everything would be complete chaos. The question is..... when were those Laws "Codified". As illustrated to you previously (quite clearly, if I may add) and the ones you failed to address accidentally on purpose..... That a comparison of 1st Chapter of Genesis with our "CURRENT" "Pillars of Science" the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics (what I personally term: GOD"S LAWS) reveals quite a conundrum to an individual that holds the position that they were "FIXED" then.... Wouldn't you agree? but I presume that many Christians believe God created a universe of disorder, chaos, and arbitrariness. Interesting.... I Bolded your obvious error Well, it seems to me that laws are just the way the Lord usually runs the universe, but there are miracles when He departs from the usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchool2 Posted March 2, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 701 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,511 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 1,759 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1955 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I was under the impression that God inspired men to write the Bible, and concerning the opening chapters of Genesis, those men just might have been Sumerian, or Akkadian. Ah, the term "inspired," inspiration." It is a misnomer used for so long that we are stuck with it. "Inspired" is a faulty translation of theopneustos in 1 Tim 3:16: πᾶσα γραφὴ θεόπνευστος = all scripture (is) inspired by God, better: all scripture is God-breathed. θε = God (stem, theos) ό = connecting vowel πνευ- = breath (σ)τος = having been X-ed, verbal adjective There is no "in" in the term translated "inspired." The idea is expired, breathed out. The picture is of God breathing out the material written. Thus, "inspiration" as a theological term, does not refer to men, but the written product, scripture. So, to speak of men being inspired is a misleading term. Of course men were used to pen the scripture; it is probable that in many cases a prophet dictated to a scribe who wrote it down (Tertius in Romans 16:22). Moses wrote Genesis. And much of what is in Genesis, only God could know. We can speculate about how God revealed it to Moses, about human sources of info that Moses had. But it is largely just speculation. 2 Pet 1:21 "For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit." Moved, as in motivated, or inspired?2 Tim 3:16 Greek: pasa graphe theopneustos kai opheliomos pros didaskalian, pros elegmon, pros epanorthosin, pros paideian ten en dikaiosune, Analyzed Literal: All Scripture [is] God-breathed and [is] beneficial for teaching [or, doctrine], for verification [or, reproof], for correcting faults, for instruction in righteousness [or, the behavior that God requires], Amplified: Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, [and] for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God’s will in thought, purpose, and action), (Amplified Bible - Lockman) KJV: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Phillips: All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the faith and correcting error, for re-setting the direction of a man's life and training him in good living. (Phillips: Touchstone) Wuest: Every scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for teaching, for conviction, for improvement, for training with respect to righteousness (Eerdmans) Young's Literal: every Writing is God-breathed, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for setting aright, for instruction that is in righteousness ... Other translations - God-breathed (YLT) breathed out by God (ESV) divinely inspired (Darby) For the whole Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Geneva) ...http://www.preceptaustin.org/2_timothy_316-17.htm And given a choice between inspiration and "psychography," I'm "stuck" with the former. The point is that it is scripture which is expired, not men. (We don't picture men coming out of a mouth, but scripture coming out.) I never heard of the term psychography before. Did you coin it? If I coined it, would I quote myself? However, have you ever heard of "automatic handwriting"? "For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit" and "the spirits of the prophets are subject to the control of the prophets" (1 Cor. 14:32). Our God is not a god of confusion. But the scribes who were inspired to write the Bible were not automatons, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnochBethany Posted March 2, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 99 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 2, 2014 I was under the impression that God inspired men to write the Bible, and concerning the opening chapters of Genesis, those men just might have been Sumerian, or Akkadian. Ah, the term "inspired," inspiration." It is a misnomer used for so long that we are stuck with it. "Inspired" is a faulty translation of theopneustos in 1 Tim 3:16: πᾶσα γραφὴ θεόπνευστος = all scripture (is) inspired by God, better: all scripture is God-breathed. θε = God (stem, theos) ό = connecting vowel πνευ- = breath (σ)τος = having been X-ed, verbal adjective There is no "in" in the term translated "inspired." The idea is expired, breathed out. The picture is of God breathing out the material written. Thus, "inspiration" as a theological term, does not refer to men, but the written product, scripture. So, to speak of men being inspired is a misleading term. Of course men were used to pen the scripture; it is probable that in many cases a prophet dictated to a scribe who wrote it down (Tertius in Romans 16:22). Moses wrote Genesis. And much of what is in Genesis, only God could know. We can speculate about how God revealed it to Moses, about human sources of info that Moses had. But it is largely just speculation. 2 Pet 1:21 "For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit." Moved, as in motivated, or inspired?2 Tim 3:16 Greek: pasa graphe theopneustos kai opheliomos pros didaskalian, pros elegmon, pros epanorthosin, pros paideian ten en dikaiosune, Analyzed Literal: All Scripture [is] God-breathed and [is] beneficial for teaching [or, doctrine], for verification [or, reproof], for correcting faults, for instruction in righteousness [or, the behavior that God requires], Amplified: Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, [and] for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God’s will in thought, purpose, and action), (Amplified Bible - Lockman) KJV: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Phillips: All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the faith and correcting error, for re-setting the direction of a man's life and training him in good living. (Phillips: Touchstone) Wuest: Every scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for teaching, for conviction, for improvement, for training with respect to righteousness (Eerdmans) Young's Literal: every Writing is God-breathed, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for setting aright, for instruction that is in righteousness ... Other translations - God-breathed (YLT) breathed out by God (ESV) divinely inspired (Darby) For the whole Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Geneva) ...http://www.preceptaustin.org/2_timothy_316-17.htm And given a choice between inspiration and "psychography," I'm "stuck" with the former. The point is that it is scripture which is expired, not men. (We don't picture men coming out of a mouth, but scripture coming out.) I never heard of the term psychography before. Did you coin it? If I coined it, would I quote myself? However, have you ever heard of "automatic handwriting"? "For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit" and "the spirits of the prophets are subject to the control of the prophets" (1 Cor. 14:32). Our God is not a god of confusion. But the scribes who were inspired to write the Bible were not automatons, either. Well, thanks for introducing to me a term I never heard before, psychography. "the scribes who were inspired" Did you miss the point? The scribes were not inspired in the theological sense of "inspired." The Scripture was "inspired," misnomer for "expired." This inspiration concept (as in "all scripture is inspired by God) simply ignores the human process & does not address the question of the revelatory process, to what extent on a scale of 0-10 the human prophet was an automoton or used free will in prophesying. The automaton scale IMHO varied, but it is not of supreme importance. What is important is that the product is God's Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted March 2, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted March 2, 2014 ==================================================== If I coined it, would I quote myself? However, have you ever heard of "automatic handwriting"? Yes, I have...... and it's an obvious Abomination. I remember back in the day; When I was out of control and thought Rock & Roll and Drugs were harmless (wasn't to quick on the uptake then.... or better yet, closed my eyes to said "Uptake")....I was watching an Interview with Robert Plant and Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin and the reporter asked how they wrote or what was the Inspiration for "Stairway to Heaven". Robert Plant without hesitation said.... they were sitting in Aleister Crowley's House (Termed the "Most Wickedest Man In The World") (The House Jimmy Page bought) and Robert was sitting with pencil and paper in hand, and the........The Song......WROTE ITSELF!! ..... In less than 2 minutes, and he wasn't joking!!!! In later years, after I took my ENTIRE record collection (which would have made Elvis blush) and summarily tossed the whole thing in the trash (I should have burned them)....I learned there was something else called "Stairway To Heaven". A Ziggurat that was real close to another Ziggurat (Tower of Babel) was called...."Stairway To Heaven". The evil one corrupts and counterfeits and among his talents....it appears one of his duties before he fell was chief musician in heaven (See: Timbrels/Tabrets and Pipes reference Ezekiel 28)....he's a musical genius. corrupts and counterfeits.... often Backwards and/or Upsidedown. I know many many people "Poo Poo" this as preposterous.... DON'T DO THIS (you can take my word for it).... If you take the studio recording OR the Live Version of Stairway To Heaven and play it backwards you will never again question WHERE IT COMES FROM!! From memory, there are @ Least 5 complete sentences 20 to 30 words each. (Ephesians 6:12) "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." That's all I have to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 P.S. how has my quoting been of late? OUTSTANDING!! You have learned well Young Skywalker. LOL I'm trying a new technique (When Appropriate) of Deleting Everything Above, except the Addressee to make the posts a little more readable. Like this one ==================================================================================================== P.S. how has my quoting been of late? OUTSTANDING!! You have learned well Young Skywalker. LOL Oh and I forgot......$$$$$$$ ???? Please send to: Enoch 2021 Genesis is a Historical Narrative PO Box 777 The WORD, The Spoken Sentence 77777 :24: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolken Posted March 2, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 405 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 2, 2014 Enoch2021 - Firefox did it........Thank You, Blessings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted March 2, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Enoch2021 - Firefox did it........Thank You, Blessings! GREAT!!! Oh, I forgot to tell you.....$$$$$$$, ??? Don't be like Connor and not pay for services rendered Send To: Enoch2021 HIS WORD shall not Return to HIM VOID PO Box 777 and "GOD SAID", "And It WAS SO" 77777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolken Posted March 2, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 405 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 2, 2014 Oh, I forgot to tell you.....$$$$$$$, ??? Check is in the mail, but then you know how the post office can be... (sent the check to PO Box 21 ...didn't want to be redundant with 7's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts