Is smoking tobacco a sin ?

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

Jerry - you are misquoting me -  i never said that smoking is not a sin, nor did i say it is a sin - i said that Romans 14:21-23 applies - that there is no clear cut answer to this question from scripture.

 

that is poor hermeneutics.  Smoking destroys the body.  Romans 14 21-23 doesn't apply to something self-desructive.

 

 

others offered scripture to support the belief that smoking is a sin, and i looked at those scriptures in context and believe the context proves that they don't mean what tradition says they do about physical things defiling the temple of the Holy Spirit which is the body.  

 

Those Scriptures you posted are part of a behavioral paradigm that deals with anything that are adverse to our bodies as temples of the Holy Spirit.  It transcends sexual immorality and easily applies to self-destructive actions.

 

those who say that smoking is clearly a sin are focused on actions, not heart intent.  God is focused on heart intent, because as the heart changes the actions change automatically.  to say that smoking is a sin is to actually strengthen it, because you are laying down a law, and sin revives when the law comes.  i'm sorry you don't see this.

 

That is completely false.  Sin brings nothing but destruction and smoking is destructive to the body. One cannot present their bodies as living sacrifices that are acceptable to the Lord as they destroy their bodies.   God is as much concerned about what we do as He is about what is in our hearts.  You draw a false and unscriptural dichotomy.

 

 

Rom 11:1-36

(1)  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

(2)  God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

(3)  Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

(4)  But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

(5)  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

(6)  And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

(7)  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

(8)  (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

(9)  And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

(10)  Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

(11)  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

(12)  Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

(13)  For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

(14)  If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

(15)  For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

(16)  For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

(17)  And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

(18)  Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

(19)  Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

(20)  Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

(21)  For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

(22)  Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

(23)  And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

(24)  For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

(25)  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

(26)  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

(27)  For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

(28)  As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

(29)  For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

(30)  For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

(31)  Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

(32)  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

(33)  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

(34)  For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

(35)  Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

(36)  For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

 

Rom 12:1-3

(1)  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

(2)  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

(3)  For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

the word therefore links this verse, to which i assume you refer, to what has been said in the verses prior to it - there is no mention whatsoever of physical habits here - the context is faith versus unbelief - the context is the state of the heart, not the physical body.  

 

you can voice all the opinion you wish, but mark this - in your next response, you will either respond with clear scripture taken in context to justify your view, or prove yourself to be in error by the lack of clear scripture taken in context to justify your view

 

Smoking isn't mentioned in the Bible,  but we have to address it from a biblical perspective.   That is why when I did post Scripture earlier in this thread, I pointed to the fact that the Bible establishes a paradigm through which we can judge behaviors that Scripture doesn't directly address.  That is part of the genius of how Scripture is constructed.

 

I have already acknowledged the immediate and literary contexts of the passages you present, but I also point to the fact that we are able to extrapolate from those passages, instruction about behavior that isn't directly addressed in Scripture.

 

So, I have provided plenty of Scripture to make my point in other posts, so there is no need on your part to pretend that I am just putting forth opinion with any Scripture. 

 

There is no context for smoking in Scripture, but that doesn't mean we can't address the issue with the light the Bible has already provided in terms of how we should avoid self-destructive behaviors.

 

 

Rom 12:1-3

(1)  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

(2)  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

(3)  For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

the word therefore links this verse, to which i assume you refer, to what has been said in the verses prior to it - there is no mention whatsoever of physical habits here - the context is faith versus unbelief - the context is the state of the heart, not the physical body. 

 

You need to pay better attention to that passage.  He says to present your bodies (not just your heart)  as living sacrifices.  This refers to everything we do in our bodies and that would include physical habits. Our bodies are to be a holy and acceptable sacrifice to the Lord and that means we should not be subjecting our bodies to abusive or destructive behaviors which includes, but is not limited to smoking.

[disciplehelovestoo]

 

 

 

Jerry - you are misquoting me -  i never said that smoking is not a sin, nor did i say it is a sin - i said that Romans 14:21-23 applies - that there is no clear cut answer to this question from scripture.

 

that is poor hermeneutics.  Smoking destroys the body.  Romans 14 21-23 doesn't apply to something self-desructive.

 

 

others offered scripture to support the belief that smoking is a sin, and i looked at those scriptures in context and believe the context proves that they don't mean what tradition says they do about physical things defiling the temple of the Holy Spirit which is the body.  

 

Those Scriptures you posted are part of a behavioral paradigm that deals with anything that are adverse to our bodies as temples of the Holy Spirit.  It transcends sexual immorality and easily applies to self-destructive actions.

 

those who say that smoking is clearly a sin are focused on actions, not heart intent.  God is focused on heart intent, because as the heart changes the actions change automatically.  to say that smoking is a sin is to actually strengthen it, because you are laying down a law, and sin revives when the law comes.  i'm sorry you don't see this.

 

That is completely false.  Sin brings nothing but destruction and smoking is destructive to the body. One cannot present their bodies as living sacrifices that are acceptable to the Lord as they destroy their bodies.   God is as much concerned about what we do as He is about what is in our hearts.  You draw a false and unscriptural dichotomy.

 

 

Rom 11:1-36

(1)  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

(2)  God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

(3)  Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

(4)  But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

(5)  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

(6)  And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

(7)  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

(8)  (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

(9)  And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

(10)  Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

(11)  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

(12)  Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

(13)  For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

(14)  If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

(15)  For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

(16)  For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

(17)  And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

(18)  Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

(19)  Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

(20)  Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

(21)  For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

(22)  Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

(23)  And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

(24)  For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

(25)  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

(26)  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

(27)  For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

(28)  As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

(29)  For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

(30)  For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

(31)  Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

(32)  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

(33)  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

(34)  For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

(35)  Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

(36)  For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

 

Rom 12:1-3

(1)  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

(2)  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

(3)  For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

the word therefore links this verse, to which i assume you refer, to what has been said in the verses prior to it - there is no mention whatsoever of physical habits here - the context is faith versus unbelief - the context is the state of the heart, not the physical body.  

 

you can voice all the opinion you wish, but mark this - in your next response, you will either respond with clear scripture taken in context to justify your view, or prove yourself to be in error by the lack of clear scripture taken in context to justify your view

 

Smoking isn't mentioned in the Bible,  but we have to address it from a biblical perspective.   That is why when I did post Scripture earlier in this thread, I pointed to the fact that the Bible establishes a paradigm through which we can judge behaviors that Scripture doesn't directly address.  That is part of the genius of how Scripture is constructed.

 

I have already acknowledged the immediate and literary contexts of the passages you present, but I also point to the fact that we are able to extrapolate from those passages, instruction about behavior that isn't directly addressed in Scripture.

 

So, I have provided plenty of Scripture to make my point in other posts, so there is no need on your part to pretend that I am just putting forth opinion with any Scripture. 

 

There is no context for smoking in Scripture, but that doesn't mean we can't address the issue with the light the Bible has already provided in terms of how we should avoid self-destructive behaviors.

 

 

Rom 12:1-3

(1)  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

(2)  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

(3)  For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

the word therefore links this verse, to which i assume you refer, to what has been said in the verses prior to it - there is no mention whatsoever of physical habits here - the context is faith versus unbelief - the context is the state of the heart, not the physical body. 

 

You need to pay better attention to that passage.  He says to present your bodies (not just your heart)  as living sacrifices.  This refers to everything we do in our bodies and that would include physical habits. Our bodies are to be a holy and acceptable sacrifice to the Lord and that means we should not be subjecting our bodies to abusive or destructive behaviors which includes, but is not limited to smoking.

 

faith is based on God's word; you have many opinions, but no word of God to base your opinions on.  the meaning here is to offer one's whole self to God.  no one is perfect in their flesh - surely you aren't saying that this sacrifice must be perfect, or that you qualify.  you need to be careful to use your skills in vocabulary and written communications to lead people to God's word instead of your own religious opinions.

 

no doubt you will have a response; but until you offer scripture to ground what you say, i will not hear you.

[firestormx]

faith is based on God's word; you have many opinions, but no word of God to base your opinions on.  the meaning here is to offer one's whole self to God.  no one is perfect in their flesh - surely you aren't saying that this sacrifice must be perfect, or that you qualify.  you need to be careful to use your skills in vocabulary and written communications to lead people to God's word instead of your own religious opinions.

 

no doubt you will have a response; but until you offer scripture to ground what you say, i will not hear you.

Just curious, do you think the verse that says "avoid all appearance of evil would apply to this"? I mean sin is the transgression of the word. Jesus is the word made flesh, and I can NOT see Jesus Christ ever smoking. So who are we to do it? Something is either Holy or it's not. There is no middle, contrary to popular opinion. Smoking is a sign or symptom of following and pleasing the fleshly/carnal nature, and not following the spirit. How can being led by, and/or following the flesh not be sin? We are the called out ones. We are to be in the world but not of the world. That's scripture. We are to be different than the world, not sitting beside them smoking it up. IMHO this whole debate comes down to a bigger debate/problem in the church, and that is holiness. I don't know if people forgot, don't know or what the problem is. But there is a big problem in the church as a whole, when it comes to holiness when we see nothing wrong with sitting down and smoking it up, divorce for any and every reason, and a host of other things. To finish my little rant here I will quote an old Carmen song, "we need a little bit more conviction"!!!! 

 

God bless you

Firestormx

Joseph

[Guest shiloh357]

faith is based on God's word; you have many opinions, but no word of God to base your opinions on.  the meaning here is to offer one's whole self to God.  no one is perfect in their flesh - surely you aren't saying that this sacrifice must be perfect, or that you qualify.  you need to be careful to use your skills in vocabulary and written communications to lead people to God's word instead of your own religious opinions.

 

no doubt you will have a response; but until you offer scripture to ground what you say, i will not hear you.

 

Yes, the meaning is to offer one's self to God.  But specifically it mentions offering our bodies to the Lord.  You can't do that while abusing your body with cigarettes.  We are called on to present bodies to God as living sacrifices that are acceptable and holy to Him.  God expects us to live up to His perfect standard, but we do so in the power of the Holy Spirit.  Does it mean flawless perfection?  No. No one is called on to live flawlessly.  We still sin.  But we don't use that as a way of abusing our liberty.  I am not perfect, but that doesn't mean it's okay for me to abuse my body with anything be it food or cigarettes.  It is a sin  to do either one.

 

 

As for claiming that I have not offered Scripture...  I have offered numerous Scriptures already!   Do I have to repost them over and over again?   Not only that, but I am also working from the Scriptures that YOU have provided and am showing you why you are wrong in the way you applying them to this situation.  To argue that I have no offered any Scriptures is a dishonest claim on your part and perhaps that you not hear me, because if you are not going to be honest in this discussion, then your posts are probably not worth responding to anyway.

[GoldenEagle]

faith is based on God's word; you have many opinions, but no word of God to base your opinions on.  the meaning here is to offer one's whole self to God.  no one is perfect in their flesh - surely you aren't saying that this sacrifice must be perfect, or that you qualify.  you need to be careful to use your skills in vocabulary and written communications to lead people to God's word instead of your own religious opinions.

 

 

no doubt you will have a response; but until you offer scripture to ground what you say, i will not hear you.

 

 

 

In all fairness Disciplehelovestoo while I disagree with Shiloh he did present Scripture to back his views back on I have added more of my post that Shiloh was quoting for context. Perhaps you missed this?

 

God bless,

GE

 

 

 

Show me in Scripture how smoking is a sin passage by passage please. Then we can study it together. Otherwise this is a personal conviction/preference and you are in essence promoting a personal conviction/preference as a sin. Perhaps for you and your conscience it is a sin? If so you shouldn't do it.

 

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

(Rom 12:1-2)

 

Notice that it says we are to present our "bodies,"  not our hears, not our minds, but our bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to the Lord.  The only sacrifice God accepts is one without spot or blemish.  With the damage that smoking inflicts on the body there is no way that smoking makes the body an acceptable sacrifice to the Lord.

 

 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

(1Co 6:19-20)

 

Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit and we are to glorify God with our bodies.  Smoking, overeating, junk food and other destructive habits don't help us glorify God with our bodies.  If anything they detract from His Glory.

 

I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

(Rom 6:19)

Smoking is extremely unclean.  It is a filthy habit.  I have been in the homes of smokers and when I left I smelled like smoke.  I could rub my finger across an end table or the wall and soot would stick to my finger.  Imagine what it does to their lungs?   Paul talks about yielding our members to uncleanness and to iniquity.  IN that chapter both come under heading of being dominated by sin.  it doesn't mean we are not Christians when we do that, but it does mean we are not letting the Holy Spirit rule our lives (another sin).

 

Here's my previous Scriptural backing that smoking is permissable but is not beneficial. Smoking is certainly not helpful and it certainly doesn't build up. We shouldn't be slaves (addicted ie chain smoker example) to anything but to God and His Word. Wouldn't you agree?

 

1 Corinthians 6:12

All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be enslaved by anything.

 

1 Corinthians 10:23-24

“All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.

 

Those two verses are addressing two different issues are ripped from their respective contexts.   I Cor. 6:12 is Paul's correction of the Corinthian use of that proverb to justify inordinate liberty.  Paul uses the proverb a second time in I Cor. 10 to address an issue of conscience regarding eating meat sacrificed to idols.

 

Paul's use of the prover in I Cor. 6:12 would apply better to the smoking issue since he was dealing with how they were abusing Christian liberty in that congregation. 

 

[GoldenEagle]

 

Just curious, do you think the verse that says "avoid all appearance of evil would apply to this"? I mean sin is the transgression of the word. Jesus is the word made flesh, and I can NOT see Jesus Christ ever smoking. So who are we to do it? Something is either Holy or it's not. There is no middle, contrary to popular opinion. Smoking is a sign or symptom of following and pleasing the fleshly/carnal nature, and not following the spirit. How can being led by, and/or following the flesh not be sin? We are the called out ones. We are to be in the world but not of the world. That's scripture. We are to be different than the world, not sitting beside them smoking it up. IMHO this whole debate comes down to a bigger debate/problem in the church, and that is holiness. I don't know if people forgot, don't know or what the problem is. But there is a big problem in the church as a whole, when it comes to holiness when we see nothing wrong with sitting down and smoking it up, divorce for any and every reason, and a host of other things. To finish my little rant here I will quote an old Carmen song, "we need a little bit more conviction"!!!! 

 

I was actually reading something this week about misused Bible passages and this passage came up... As the character Inigo Montoya made famous in Princess Bride... "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

 

What do you think brother?

God bless,

GE

 

Steve: I’ve often heard 1 Thessalonians 5:22 misused. Paul wrote: “Abstain from all appearances of evil” (KJV). The popular application of this verse suggests that it teaches us to avoid anything that looks like evil. Yet this is not what the verse means in context. “Evil” in verse 22 is contrasted with “good” in verse 21. “Good” is used with reference to prophetic utterances (mentioned in verse 20) which upon examination (verse 21) are found to be genuine. In this light, “evil” likely refers to counterfeit prophetic utterances. It’s very important that we examine the immediate context for the intended meaning before jumping to applications. This is what pastors should teach people to look at when studying Scripture.

As to the misuse of I Thessalonians 5:22, many things have been condemned by using this verse as an isolated injunction commanding us to abstain from anything that looks like evil. Certainly, the New Testament commands us to “abhor (or hate) what is evil and cling to what is good” (Romans 12:9), but this is an example of a more general command of Scripture. Defining evil should be based on explicit biblical commands specifically naming evil.

 

The danger of misapplying I Thessalonians 5:22 becomes even more significant when one remembers that Jesus condemned the Pharisees for judging based on appearances. They were quick to label and condemn people based on superficial evaluations of appearance.

 

On one occasion, Jesus exposed this tendency by saying, “John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine; and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking; and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man, and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!’” (Luke 7:33-34). Jesus rebuked the Pharisees saying, “You like to appear righteous in public, but God knows your hearts. What this world honors is detestable in the sight of God” (Luke 16:15, NLT).

 

God rebuked this tendency long ago when He said to Samuel, “God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart” (1 Samuel 16:7). It’s much too easy to allow this form of Pharisaic judgmentalism to enter our hearts! We must reject the tendency of hastily arriving at judgmental conclusions based on superficial evaluation of outward appearances.

 

[firestormx]

Just curious, do you think the verse that says "avoid all appearance of evil would apply to this"? I mean sin is the transgression of the word. Jesus is the word made flesh, and I can NOT see Jesus Christ ever smoking. So who are we to do it? Something is either Holy or it's not. There is no middle, contrary to popular opinion. Smoking is a sign or symptom of following and pleasing the fleshly/carnal nature, and not following the spirit. How can being led by, and/or following the flesh not be sin? We are the called out ones. We are to be in the world but not of the world. That's scripture. We are to be different than the world, not sitting beside them smoking it up. IMHO this whole debate comes down to a bigger debate/problem in the church, and that is holiness. I don't know if people forgot, don't know or what the problem is. But there is a big problem in the church as a whole, when it comes to holiness when we see nothing wrong with sitting down and smoking it up, divorce for any and every reason, and a host of other things. To finish my little rant here I will quote an old Carmen song, "we need a little bit more conviction"!!!!

I was actually reading something this week about misused Bible passages and this passage came up... As the character Inigo Montoya made famous in Princess Bride... "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

 

What do you think brother?

God bless,

GE

 

Steve: I’ve often heard 1 Thessalonians 5:22 misused. Paul wrote: “Abstain from all appearances of evil” (KJV). The popular application of this verse suggests that it teaches us to avoid anything that looks like evil. Yet this is not what the verse means in context. “Evil” in verse 22 is contrasted with “good” in verse 21. “Good” is used with reference to prophetic utterances (mentioned in verse 20) which upon examination (verse 21) are found to be genuine. In this light, “evil” likely refers to counterfeit prophetic utterances. It’s very important that we examine the immediate context for the intended meaning before jumping to applications. This is what pastors should teach people to look at when studying Scripture.

As to the misuse of I Thessalonians 5:22, many things have been condemned by using this verse as an isolated injunction commanding us to abstain from anything that looks like evil. Certainly, the New Testament commands us to “abhor (or hate) what is evil and cling to what is good” (Romans 12:9), but this is an example of a more general command of Scripture. Defining evil should be based on explicit biblical commands specifically naming evil.

 

The danger of misapplying I Thessalonians 5:22 becomes even more significant when one remembers that Jesus condemned the Pharisees for judging based on appearances. They were quick to label and condemn people based on superficial evaluations of appearance.

 

On one occasion, Jesus exposed this tendency by saying, “John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine; and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking; and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man, and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!’” (Luke 7:33-34). Jesus rebuked the Pharisees saying, “You like to appear righteous in public, but God knows your hearts. What this world honors is detestable in the sight of God” (Luke 16:15, NLT).

 

God rebuked this tendency long ago when He said to Samuel, “God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart” (1 Samuel 16:7). It’s much too easy to allow this form of Pharisaic judgmentalism to enter our hearts! We must reject the tendency of hastily arriving at judgmental conclusions based on superficial evaluation of outward appearances.

Interesting read. Very possible that is the proper application of the verse. However my point in my post remains unchanged. It is following the flesh/carnal nature to smoke. Smoking is a holiness issue. We are to be set apart. Not sitting with our friends drinking and smoking. If it's ok to smoke at all at any time, then go light up in a church service. If it's not sinful, why not allow people to smoke in church?

Edited June 18, 2014 by firestormx

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

Just curious, do you think the verse that says "avoid all appearance of evil would apply to this"? I mean sin is the transgression of the word. Jesus is the word made flesh, and I can NOT see Jesus Christ ever smoking. So who are we to do it? Something is either Holy or it's not. There is no middle, contrary to popular opinion. Smoking is a sign or symptom of following and pleasing the fleshly/carnal nature, and not following the spirit. How can being led by, and/or following the flesh not be sin? We are the called out ones. We are to be in the world but not of the world. That's scripture. We are to be different than the world, not sitting beside them smoking it up. IMHO this whole debate comes down to a bigger debate/problem in the church, and that is holiness. I don't know if people forgot, don't know or what the problem is. But there is a big problem in the church as a whole, when it comes to holiness when we see nothing wrong with sitting down and smoking it up, divorce for any and every reason, and a host of other things. To finish my little rant here I will quote an old Carmen song, "we need a little bit more conviction"!!!! 

 

I was actually reading something this week about misused Bible passages and this passage came up... As the character Inigo Montoya made famous in Princess Bride... "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

 

What do you think brother?

God bless,

GE

 

Steve: I’ve often heard 1 Thessalonians 5:22 misused. Paul wrote: “Abstain from all appearances of evil” (KJV). The popular application of this verse suggests that it teaches us to avoid anything that looks like evil. Yet this is not what the verse means in context. “Evil” in verse 22 is contrasted with “good” in verse 21. “Good” is used with reference to prophetic utterances (mentioned in verse 20) which upon examination (verse 21) are found to be genuine. In this light, “evil” likely refers to counterfeit prophetic utterances. It’s very important that we examine the immediate context for the intended meaning before jumping to applications. This is what pastors should teach people to look at when studying Scripture.

As to the misuse of I Thessalonians 5:22, many things have been condemned by using this verse as an isolated injunction commanding us to abstain from anything that looks like evil. Certainly, the New Testament commands us to “abhor (or hate) what is evil and cling to what is good” (Romans 12:9), but this is an example of a more general command of Scripture. Defining evil should be based on explicit biblical commands specifically naming evil.

 

The danger of misapplying I Thessalonians 5:22 becomes even more significant when one remembers that Jesus condemned the Pharisees for judging based on appearances. They were quick to label and condemn people based on superficial evaluations of appearance.

 

On one occasion, Jesus exposed this tendency by saying, “John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine; and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking; and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man, and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!’” (Luke 7:33-34). Jesus rebuked the Pharisees saying, “You like to appear righteous in public, but God knows your hearts. What this world honors is detestable in the sight of God” (Luke 16:15, NLT).

 

God rebuked this tendency long ago when He said to Samuel, “God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart” (1 Samuel 16:7). It’s much too easy to allow this form of Pharisaic judgmentalism to enter our hearts! We must reject the tendency of hastily arriving at judgmental conclusions based on superficial evaluation of outward appearances.

 

 

Actually, I Thess. 5:22 in the Greek says, "abstain from every form of evil."   It is not limited to simply false prophecies and false prophets.

 

Paul in the context of biblical prophecy, particularly in connection with the second coming of Christ, Paul repeatedly throughout his epistles, calls on the believers to live holy and to purify themselves in view of Christ's return.  Here it is no different.

 

Paul gives a list of things they should do particularly because there were false teachers and their teachings were permeating the churches.  He calls on them in light of Jesus' return, which Paul thought was about to happen in his day (which makes sense because I Thess. is Paul's first epistle). 

 

So if abusing one's body is "evil" and Paul calls on us to avoid every form of evil, then that would include evil things, even those which are not directly mentioned in the text.

 

This behavioral paradigm that the Bible establishes goes counter to how we think in 21st century America.  In our legal system, everything has to be spelled out, every detail has to be included in a contract.  In American jurisprudence, every criminal act must be carefully delineated because loopholes are common in our legal system.  Criminal get off on technicalities because something they did isn't specifically mentioned in the law as criminal.

 

In Bible times, the law might tell you what to do if your bull gores your neighbor's sheep.  But the law doesn't say what happens if your goat gores your neighbor's sheep. But you can extrapolate from the law about the bull and apply it to the goat.  So there was no loophole, no way to argue that "the law doesn't say anything about goats goring  sheep."  So, in God's legal system, there are no loopholes because God has provided enough light to guide our steps in what has an has not been directly mentioned in Scripture.

 

It is that way with other parts of the Scriptures which mention some sins but doesn't mention every possible sin a person could commit.  That the Bible doesn't spell everything out for us, should not be problem.

 

It's too bad that all over America, our seminaries and churches have become seedbeds for liberal thinking.   People have taken liberty and turned it into license.  Holiness is now viewed a legalism and sin is diminished and has been reduced from what offends God to a mere personal lifestyle choice.

[Jerry1023]

@disciplehelovestoo,

you have a very strong believe that,

smoking is not a sin,

even to the extend in saying that the person that asked the question is wrong,

if it happen that the question goes like this,

does it make sense for a believer to smoke?

Does bible support smoking?

can Holy Spirit ask a believer to smoke?

can Holy Spirit ask a believer to stop smoking?

generally we know that tobaco is dangerous to our health,

why then supporting what is not good for our health,

if any believer that newly gave his life to christ,

and he is struggling to quit smoking,

just because it is not generally supported,for a believer to smoke,

and the Holy Spirit directed him on this site,

and he look into this thread and the replies,

he will simple believe that,

it is wise to smoke,

the last thing i will do is to encourage a believer to smoke,

God forbid,

i will only encourage a believer to quit,

with God all things are possible,

anything that has a begining will surely have an end.

it is just a matter of time and prayers,

whether smoking is a sin or not,

whether it is right or wrong for a believer to smoke,

but all of us know that it is very bad to our health.

even the person that asked the question know that,

know where in the bible that says,

smoking tobaco is a sin,

that was why he ask the question,

the bible said that anybody that knows what is good and refuse to do it,the bible said it is a sin to that person.

Jerry - you are misquoting me - i never said that smoking is not a sin, nor did i say it is a sin - i said that Romans 14:21-23 applies - that there is no clear cut answer to this question from scripture. others offered scripture to support the belief that smoking is a sin, and i looked at those scriptures in context and believe the context proves that they don't mean what tradition says they do about physical things defiling the temple of the Holy Spirit which is the body.

please be more careful; if you think i said something, then copy it out of my post(s) and quote it to me, don't assume you know what i mean - you can't see my heart nor read my mind.

you have made a number of assumptions and accusations in this post - but where is the scripture??? not a verse taken out of context, but clear scripture taken in context that deals with this subject?

those who say that smoking is clearly a sin are focused on actions, not heart intent. God is focused on heart intent, because as the heart changes the actions change automatically. to say that smoking is a sin is to actually strengthen it, because you are laying down a law, and sin revives when the law comes. i'm sorry you don't see this.

God bless you my brother in Christ @dsiciplehelovestoo,

I believe we are here to learn and to help our christian life,

the bible said we should not lean on our own understanding,

By the reason of the comment you made above,

iam not misquoting you,

I have been following your replies on this topic,

mind you,we are debating,only on one question,

whether smoking tobaco is a sin,

I myself, i have never come accros any passage in the bible that says smoking tobaco is a sin,

when i was trying to disagree with you, on your opinion concerning this topic,

It all started when you quoted a passage in the bible,

that says,

what enter into a man body through the mouth,can never defile him,

so what are you insinuating by quoting that passage?

we have three believe on this topic,

some believe that smoking is not a sin,

some believe that smoking is a sin,

some believe that smoking is not a sin,But it is unwise to smoke,

where do you belong?

from my cultural point of view,

and how i was brought up as a christian,

I use to believe that it is a taboo and a sin before God and man for a believer to smoke,

that was what warranted me to say boldly in my above replies,

that a genuine born again can never smoke,

but many people over here disagree with me,

May the good God i serve bless Shiloh,

His believe is very clear,

you said, neither said smoking is a sin or not,

but all your replies indicated on one believe,

mostly you has been disagreeing with us,

I mean i and Shiloh,

no doubt you are good in quoting scripture,

all the scriptures you have been quoting here,is center on one believe,

to me i strongly believe that anything that is distructive to the body,

Is a sin,

I will like to know your opinion on this very topic,

Do you believe that smoking is a sin?

Do you believe that smoking is not a sin?

Do you believe that smoking is not a sin,But unwise to smoke?

we are debating on one topic with three believe.

like i always says, iam here to learn and to help my christian life,

Always open to correction.

[Jerry1023]

Now concerning smoking,the bible did not directly say christian should not smoke,neither did the bible encourage a christian to smoke,

Dearly beloved,i beseech you as a stranger and pilgrims,abstain from fleshly lusts,which war against the soul.

1 peter 2:11"

I QUOTES

words spoken directly to me from God,concerning smoking and receiving healing,

before i stoped smoking,

God spoke very clear to me 24 years ago,when i needed a healing,

God asked me....how can i heal one part of you,

when you are damanging another?

i know exactly what He meanlt,

He meanlt,how can He heal one part of me,when iam damanging another with smoking,

God is saying that smoking is such irresponsible care to the body that He gave us,

i believe that this is a direct revelation from God and fact that He does not want His people to smoke,

and possible smoking hinders us from receiving God's total healings.