Can Only the Elect Accept God and be saved ?

[justfaith]

 

 

 

 

Ephesians 1:4-7King James Version (KJV)

 

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

 

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 

Hi Justfaith,

 

This passage is part of what is known as a Hebraism. A Hebraism is a Jewish praise to God. In this passage Paul is giving praise to God for what He has done for the Jewish people. It's not speaking of God choosing who will be saved as many claim.

 

What is your thoughts on Pharaoh ? Was he predestined to be destroyed ?

 

When you say predestined, do you mean was he created for that purpose? If that is what you are asking, my answer would be no. Scripture says that Pharaoh hardened his heart. God said that He raise Pharaoh up that He might show His power. I believe the hardening of Pharaoh was only after he had hardened his own heart.

 

Exodus 7:3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.

 

Exodus 7:13 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said.

[Butch5]

 

 

 

 

 

Ephesians 1:4-7King James Version (KJV)

 

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

 

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 

Hi Justfaith,

 

This passage is part of what is known as a Hebraism. A Hebraism is a Jewish praise to God. In this passage Paul is giving praise to God for what He has done for the Jewish people. It's not speaking of God choosing who will be saved as many claim.

 

What is your thoughts on Pharaoh ? Was he predestined to be destroyed ?

 

When you say predestined, do you mean was he created for that purpose? If that is what you are asking, my answer would be no. Scripture says that Pharaoh hardened his heart. God said that He raise Pharaoh up that He might show His power. I believe the hardening of Pharaoh was only after he had hardened his own heart.

 

 

 

Then you are sadly mistaken God harden Pharaoh heart before that read the story as a result when Pharaoh did harden his heart is because God had already did 

 

 

Exodus 4:21 And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go

 

17 And I have said, I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt unto the land of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, unto a land flowing with milk and honey.

18 And they shall hearken to thy voice: and thou shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and ye shall say unto him, The LORD God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days' journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the LORD our God.

19 And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand. {no...: or, but by strong hand}

20 And I will stretch out my hand, and smite Egypt with all my wonders which I will do in the midst thereof: and after that he will let you go. (Exo 3:17-20 KJV)

 

 

 

12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.

13 And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.

14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.

15 For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth.

16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth. {raised...: Heb. made thee stand}

17 As yet exaltest thou thyself against my people, that thou wilt not let them go? (Exo 9:12-17 KJV)

[Butch5]

A few verses to ponder:

John 15:16New King James Version (NKJV)

16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

2 Timothy 2:20 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth, and some to honor and some to dishonor.

Romans 9:21New King James Version (NKJV)

21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

John 6:44New King James Version (NKJV)

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

IMO its a mystery.

Hi Enoc,

 

All of these passages when understood in context do not teach determinism. For instance, in John 15:16 Jesus chose those particular men for a purpose, He was choosing who would and would not be saved. Actually, we see in John 17 that one of those who Christ chose was lost, it was Judas. 

[Guest shiloh357]

A few verses to ponder:

John 15:16New King James Version (NKJV)

16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

2 Timothy 2:20 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth, and some to honor and some to dishonor.

Romans 9:21New King James Version (NKJV)

21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

John 6:44New King James Version (NKJV)

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

IMO its a mystery.

in every case, those passages are dealing with the issue of God choosing whom He will for the purpose of accomplishing is His plans and agenda in the earth. None of those passages has anything to do with who is or isn't saved.  God doesn't choose to save some and not others.  Jesus death was for all mankind.

[justfaith]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ephesians 1:4-7King James Version (KJV)

 

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

 

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 

Hi Justfaith,

 

This passage is part of what is known as a Hebraism. A Hebraism is a Jewish praise to God. In this passage Paul is giving praise to God for what He has done for the Jewish people. It's not speaking of God choosing who will be saved as many claim.

 

What is your thoughts on Pharaoh ? Was he predestined to be destroyed ?

 

When you say predestined, do you mean was he created for that purpose? If that is what you are asking, my answer would be no. Scripture says that Pharaoh hardened his heart. God said that He raise Pharaoh up that He might show His power. I believe the hardening of Pharaoh was only after he had hardened his own heart.

 

 

 

Then you are sadly mistaken God harden Pharaoh heart before that read the story as a result when Pharaoh did harden his heart is because God had already did 

 

 

Exodus 4:21 And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go

 

17 And I have said, I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt unto the land of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, unto a land flowing with milk and honey.

18 And they shall hearken to thy voice: and thou shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and ye shall say unto him, The LORD God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days' journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the LORD our God.

19 And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand. {no...: or, but by strong hand}

20 And I will stretch out my hand, and smite Egypt with all my wonders which I will do in the midst thereof: and after that he will let you go. (Exo 3:17-20 KJV)

 

 

 

12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.

13 And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.

14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.

15 For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth.

16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth. {raised...: Heb. made thee stand}

17 As yet exaltest thou thyself against my people, that thou wilt not let them go? (Exo 9:12-17 KJV)

 

 

12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses

[justfaith]

 

A few verses to ponder:

John 15:16New King James Version (NKJV)

16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

2 Timothy 2:20 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth, and some to honor and some to dishonor.

Romans 9:21New King James Version (NKJV)

21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

John 6:44New King James Version (NKJV)

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

IMO its a mystery.

in every case, those passages are dealing with the issue of God choosing whom He will for the purpose of accomplishing is His plans and agenda in the earth. None of those passages has anything to do with who is or isn't saved.  God doesn't choose to save some and not others.  Jesus death was for all mankind.

 

can God soften someone heart ?

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

A few verses to ponder:

John 15:16New King James Version (NKJV)

16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

2 Timothy 2:20 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth, and some to honor and some to dishonor.

Romans 9:21New King James Version (NKJV)

21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

John 6:44New King James Version (NKJV)

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

IMO its a mystery.

in every case, those passages are dealing with the issue of God choosing whom He will for the purpose of accomplishing is His plans and agenda in the earth. None of those passages has anything to do with who is or isn't saved.  God doesn't choose to save some and not others.  Jesus death was for all mankind.

 

can God soften someone heart ?

 

I don't see how that is relevant to what I said.

[Butch5]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ephesians 1:4-7King James Version (KJV)

 

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

 

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 

Hi Justfaith,

 

This passage is part of what is known as a Hebraism. A Hebraism is a Jewish praise to God. In this passage Paul is giving praise to God for what He has done for the Jewish people. It's not speaking of God choosing who will be saved as many claim.

 

What is your thoughts on Pharaoh ? Was he predestined to be destroyed ?

 

When you say predestined, do you mean was he created for that purpose? If that is what you are asking, my answer would be no. Scripture says that Pharaoh hardened his heart. God said that He raise Pharaoh up that He might show His power. I believe the hardening of Pharaoh was only after he had hardened his own heart.

 

 

 

Then you are sadly mistaken God harden Pharaoh heart before that read the story as a result when Pharaoh did harden his heart is because God had already did 

 

 

Exodus 4:21 And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go

 

17 And I have said, I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt unto the land of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, unto a land flowing with milk and honey.

18 And they shall hearken to thy voice: and thou shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and ye shall say unto him, The LORD God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days' journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the LORD our God.

19 And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand. {no...: or, but by strong hand}

20 And I will stretch out my hand, and smite Egypt with all my wonders which I will do in the midst thereof: and after that he will let you go. (Exo 3:17-20 KJV)

 

 

 

12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.

13 And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.

14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.

15 For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth.

16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth. {raised...: Heb. made thee stand}

17 As yet exaltest thou thyself against my people, that thou wilt not let them go? (Exo 9:12-17 KJV)

 

 

12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses

 

What's your point?

[Enoc]

A few verses to ponder:

John 15:16New King James Version (NKJV)

16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

2 Timothy 2:20 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth, and some to honor and some to dishonor.

Romans 9:21New King James Version (NKJV)

21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

John 6:44New King James Version (NKJV)

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

IMO its a mystery.

in every case, those passages are dealing with the issue of God choosing whom He will for the purpose of accomplishing is His plans and agenda in the earth. None of those passages has anything to do with who is or isn't saved.  God doesn't choose to save some and not others.  Jesus death was for all mankind.

I agree Christ died for all of mankind, however all will not be saved. If GOD wanted all to be saved then all would be, but that is not the case.

And yes, who will be saved without having their purpose/destiny defined by GOD?

Who can be saved without GOD's permission? I say only the elect.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Enoc

[Enoc]

A few verses to ponder:

John 15:16New King James Version (NKJV)

16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

2 Timothy 2:20 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth, and some to honor and some to dishonor.

Romans 9:21New King James Version (NKJV)

21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

John 6:44New King James Version (NKJV)

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

IMO its a mystery.

in every case, those passages are dealing with the issue of God choosing whom He will for the purpose of accomplishing is His plans and agenda in the earth. None of those passages has anything to do with who is or isn't saved.  God doesn't choose to save some and not others.  Jesus death was for all mankind.

can God soften someone heart ?

GOD can do whatever he wants.