The Indwelling Holy Spirit VS Other Spirits

[Guest Pariah]

Greetings Fellow Believers in Christ Jesus,

There are many verses to discern what has been creeping into many denomenations and that is the heresey of calling for the Spirit of God to come or looking for the Holy Spirit to come in the presence of born again believers that already have the Holy Spirit in them. Do not be ashame or become angry with those that led you astray as anyone can follow the crowd and never question if what you were all doing was of the Gospel or not. I pray that the Lord may cause the increase in the knowledge of Him so that you may discern what is in the world and what is the Gospel.

John 14:16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Now the danger of looking for the presence of God is seen here in these verses. The real Holy Spirit dwells within. Looking to receive an extra touch or see some proof that God is with you is after the rudiments of the world for what they receive, they see it. To practise worship in this manner is to void the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 13: 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

How does one receive the Holy Spirit?

Galatians 3: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Ephesians 1: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Hebrews 11: 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

But yet... people are being caught up in this different type of worship and testify to the glory of its visiting presence. They speak of manufestations not listed in the New Testament churches.

1 Corinthians 12: 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

So then what is going on?

2 Corinthians 11: 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Isn't calling for the Spirit of God to come when He is in you, hypocrisey? Yes!!Khundalini.. an Eastern Mysticism that involves yoga also will testify to receiving power, fire, peace, being pinned down, and others as they meditate while new age channellers call for their spirit guides, mediums call up ghosts, American Indians call for the Great Spirit, and so on as the world receive it for they see it.. again and again... but that is not how we receive the Holy Spirit in coming to Christ Jesus.... for we receive Him one time and that is it. You are sealed with Him.

2 Timothy 2: 19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

1 John 3: 22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 4: 1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Take note of verse 3 in chapter 4 above and remember the faith. That line of discernement has been drawn. The Holy Spirit is in us and therefore need not be in the world or around us in the worship place. Can anyone get closer to God than that when He is in us? That was what Jesus was trying to tell the Samaritan woman about a time coming when they will not need to go to the mountains nor Jerusalem to worship God, but we shall worship Him in Spirit and in truth for our body becomes the temple of the Holy Spirit... thus when people start talking about the Holy Spirit being here or there, they are not speaking of the faith, but something else in His name.

Matthew 24: 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

People go to Toronto , Canada or Pennsacola, FL. or to their church because the Spirit of God is visiting there but the real indwelling Holy Spirit would never steal the spotlight off of Jesus Christ. Here is why.

John 15: 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16: 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you

Philippians 2: 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The Holy Spirit does not seek to be worshipped nor glorified for he will not speak of himself, but to bear testimony of Jesus Christ and glorify Jesus Christ.

Guess what? As there are many songs that are in errors, the only way we can glorify God the Father is through the Son.

John 5: 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 13: 31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

Because of the errant hymnals that pay homage to the Holy Spirit, it is easy to see how this movement of the "spirit" got going in all the denomenations. Because there are other spirits in the world, that is why all invitations points to Jesus Christ and still does afterwards for He is the Head of the Church and Our Good Shepherd that guides us through the Holy Spirit within us.

Luke 13: 24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Matthew 7: 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep

Edited January 9, 2005 by Pariah

[Sola Scriptora]

Have you ever been to Toronto or Pensacola??? Or are you merely aping what you read from Andrew Strom and Hank Hanegraff?

The Holy Spirit can fall upon beliebers during sewrvie, and often does. You can feel differences between churches. Some are deader than a doornail and have no noticeable presence of God, but an obvious lack thereof. Others have the presence of God so strong you can feel him the minute you walk in. Why is that???

[Joe@actsii]

I am a born again christian, pentecostal to be exact. I am filled with the Spirit of God, and I have spoken in tongues on a regular bases. I feel that when I invite Jesus to come into a service or prayer meeting it is more of a submission thing, I am surrendering my will for His will in the service. I want a meeting that is pleasing to God and not just what I want for myself.

Also when I ask for His Spirit to come into a service I feel that this is appropriate, even though I have Him in my heart. I think it is less a matter of God coming into a space that is already filled by Him, but more of putting down our flesh and opening up our reception to His presence.

[Guest Pariah]

Have you ever been to Toronto or Pensacola???

Edited January 10, 2005 by Pariah

[Guest Pariah]

I am a born again christian, pentecostal to be exact.  I am filled with the Spirit of God, and I have spoken in tongues on a regular bases.  I feel that when I invite Jesus to come into a service or prayer meeting it is more of a submission thing, I am surrendering my will for His will in the service.  I want a meeting that is pleasing to God and not just what I want for myself. 

Also when I ask for His Spirit to come into a service I feel that this is appropriate, even though I have Him in my heart.  I think it is less a matter of God coming into a space that is already filled by Him, but more of putting down our flesh and opening up our reception to His presence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you want a meeting that is pleasing to God then worship Him IN Spirit and In truth. I understand what you are saying, but scriptures disagrees with it totally because if you blur that line of discernment, then you will be bearing false witness of the Gospel. You cannot ask for the Spirit to come if He is in already in you. That is hypocrisey. It is after the rudminets of the world and you must correct your speech if any non believer is going to see the faith that is in Christ Jesus. I understand that you want to love God. So do the catholics. But are we bearing witness of Jesus Christ when we void the promise for all those that come to Him that the Holy Spirit abides in us for ever? Try and tell a non believer that God will never leave him in christianity when you have a worship service that says He does for He has to come again and again. Words versus actions. Non believers know what hypocrisey is also and all this does.. the rationalization for this type of worship.. is take away that assurance that the Holy Spirit shall abide in us forever. There is no getting around this. This is a false witness. And like the catholics, when one does something for a long time and served as a routine, one doesn't question it and become insulted by the notion that they have been misled. But what am I talking about? The faith that is in Christ Jesus. People can take pride in what you guys do in the pentecostal churches.. although I am sure not all do that.. I hope anyway.. but so can the catholics in what they do in the works of catholicism because they are shwoing their love for God... but in regards to both.. they have forgotten their first love, Jesus Christ.. and are serving something else in His name. Narrow the gait back to Jesus..,. for these are the latter days. If the Holy Spirit is pointing to Jesus, then you have to wonder why people are pointing to something they claim to be the Holy Spirit or doing something that is not scriptural at all in regards to the Spirit. Jesus is the Gospel. The Holy Spirit is the rpomise for all those that come To Jesus and once He has come.. He abides in us forever.. so just preach Jesus Christ & him crucified... and you can't go wrong.

[Botz]

Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

I think these were all Believers who had already been filled with the Holy Ghost...and yet here they are again being filled.

There is a distinction between the initial indwelling of the Holy Ghost...and the constant outpouring of the Holy Ghost in our lives....that keeps filling us up as it were with the presence of G-d and generally emboldening and encouraging us in our daily lives. I believe this is Scriptural and that the Greek allows for the translation to be actively present...eg 'Be being filled...' it should be a constant experience throughout our walk with the L-rd.

Acts 13:52 And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.

...Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;....

I do agree that there has been a certain manipulation and hysterical response to the presence of the Holy Ghost in modern times that stems more from the flesh than from the Spirit...and some ministers of the Gospel appear to be more interested in effects and razzamatazz showmanship than ministering the Gospel in the authority and power of the Holy Ghost to a needy world. Much of this is a great distraction.

The person of the Holy Ghost is Omnipresent...Yes He comes and dwells in the hearts of Believers but He is not limited and we cannot quite work out how He can be with us and yet presence Himself at times very powerfully in meetings or even when we are alone with G-d.

[Guest Pariah]

Acts 4:31  And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

I think these were all Believers who had already been filled with the Holy Ghost...and yet here they are again being filled.

There is a distinction between the initial indwelling of the Holy Ghost...and the constant outpouring of the Holy Ghost in our lives....that keeps filling us up as it were with the presence of G-d and generally emboldening and encouraging us in our daily lives.  I believe this is Scriptural and that the Greek allows for the translation to be actively present...eg 'Be being filled...' it should be a constant experience throughout our walk with the L-rd.

Acts 13:52  And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.

...Eph 5:18  And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;....

I do agree that there has been a certain manipulation and hysterical response to the presence of the Holy Ghost in modern times that stems more from the flesh than from the Spirit...and some ministers of the Gospel appear to be more interested in effects and razzamatazz showmanship than ministering the Gospel in the authority and power of the Holy Ghost to a needy world.  Much of this is a great distraction.

The person of the Holy Ghost is Omnipresent...Yes He comes and dwells in the hearts of Believers but He is not limited and we cannot quite work out how He can be with us and yet presence Himself at times very powerfully in meetings or even when we are alone with G-d.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problem with the recording of events happening in the book of Acts is that the person writing knew what he meant whereas the people reading do not, especially if they are trying to fit their experience with those in the book of Acts.

Let us take the verse you had referred to.

Acts 4 :31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

From reading this... it does not say again. They have used the word again in the New Testament so it is not a word they do not normally used. One can read this as a recap of the fact that they were all believers and filled with the Holy Ghost so as to clarify that there wasn't a non-believer among them.

Let's go up abit from that verse.

Acts 4: 23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them. 24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: 25Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? 26The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. 29And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.

Then after speaking with one accord in their own company.. we have the recap of that company...being of like-minded in Christ.... and of the faith.

Acts 4 :31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

In the book of Acts... you cannot tell if what you say is the proper translation when it does not say again... it could be a recap, signifying that they were all filled with the Holy Ghost as in presently filled.

Same thing with Acts 13:52. One can say it is a stretch, but my point is... where is the word again? I say it is just a reminder or a recap of the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

Take a step back and ask yourself this.. where is the instructions to the churches in the New Testament in regards to plainly speaking of the doctrine regarding this continually filling one self up? Or calling the Spirit to come? One says we are complete in Christ Jesus. Another says.. one Spirit.. one baptism...

We look at Ephesians 5:18 and you apply your experience/ practise to the verse whereas I would apply the verse to the experience/ practise with the rest of the Word of God. " 18And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; " I see that as remaining in self control which is a fruit of the Spirit.

Why? We cannot lose the Holy Spirit. Not even a part of Him. He is stuck with us.

1 Corinthians 3: 9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God

[Botz]

Hi Pariah...thanks for the interesting reply.

You wrote..

Take a step back and ask yourself this.. where is the instructions to the churches in the New Testament in regards to plainly speaking of the doctrine regarding this continually filling one self up?

I think the whole of the New Testament demonstrates the indwelling of the Holy Ghost in the life of the Church...and the whole emphasis of the Gospel is focused on being filled with His presence on a daily/constant basis.

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

It the old reprobate days...enjoyment was had by getting as much alcohol into my blood in as short a time as possible and to lose control and forget about my troubles...here I feel Believers are to literally be filled and enjoy the presence of the Holy Ghost. Paul goes on to show how...

Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Why do you think Paul chose to compare the Holy Ghost to being drunk?...or why do you think on the day of Pentecost people thought they had downed large quantities of alcohol...was it something in their behaviour?

You go on to write..

See.. the problem with your perspective is that one looks for the presence in the worship place.. to feel His presence... but because there are other spirits out there.. Jesus put the Holy Spirit in the box.. our body which is the temple of the Holy Spirit AND most importantly.. He said the ONLY way we can know Him is that He abides IN us.. not out there

Its not quite like that...sometimes I think the presence of G-d is 'heavy' in a meeting...or after or during some great worship His presence is just so lovely and fills you to overflowing.

You can be out for a walk and just enjoying the wonders of His creation and His presence just overwhelms you.

You can be preaching,teaching,praying,worshipping or even stuck in a Roman jail singing to the L-rd and His presence will fill you and overflow from you.

This is my understanding...and if you are constantly filled with the Holy Ghost then the fruits of this daily encounter will be evident in your life.

I don't think any Believer voluntarily reaches out to a spirit other than the Holy Ghost....and I think it is a lovely thing to seek His presence and enjoy His presence and be filled with the wonder of the presence of G-d...Also when seeking His presence I don't believe the L-rd will send us a scorpion...although I am aware of deceiving spirits and their activity in the Body and from the pulpit.

You wrote...

Again.. we cannot use the book of Acts to fit our experiences in the Bible and say.. oh.. this is it .. so it is okay. If the Holy Spirit is pointing to Jesus and it is by Jesus.. sinners are converted and are saved, thus receiving the seal of adoption of the Holy Ghost as promised, then we should too and stop pointing to or looking for God's presence in the worship place of which is like confessing.. Jesus Christ is not come in the flesh.. of which in reality ... it is that spirit of anti-christ... which is in the world. Know not the faith how Jesus Christ is in you?

I expect we all use our experiences to fit the word of G-d sometimes...and you are right we should not do so....may we be quick to recognize when we do so and ready to change.

1John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

I think basically when people cry out or long for the presence of the Holy Ghost...they are asking for a touch from G-d...He has placed His Spirit in us and as sons we cry out Abba Father. No one would say that the Holy Spirit died on the cross but one might cry out for the presence of the Holy Ghost...meaning the presence of G-d. We should ask everything of the Father in the name of Jesus...but sometimes people pray to the Holy Ghost...hmmm....you say...

Any doctrine or any spirit that takes our eyes off of Jesus in the worship place, should be discerned as such and ignored. The Holy Spirit will speak whatever he hears the Lord Jesus speak. The Holy Spirit will take of Jesus and show them unto us. We grow in the knowledge of Jesus so our love may abound et more and more. We should not broaden the Way by including the Holy Spirit in the spotlight at all... especially since the indwelling Holy Spirit seesk to put Jesus in the spotlight, to testify of Him and glorify His name above every other name.

In John 14-16 Jesus says to the disciples that both He and the Father will come and dwell with them..

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Is it therefore wrong for a man to worship and say Holy Ghost I love you...because you reveal Jesus and the Father to me...is the Holy Ghost less than the Father and the Son...of course not.

Jesus glorified the Father...everything He did had its root in the Father...yet He was worshipped. The Holy Ghost shows us Jesus...can He not be worshipped?

[Guest Pariah]

Hi Botz,

You posted:

"Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

It the old reprobate days...enjoyment was had by getting as much alcohol into my blood in as short a time as possible and to lose control and forget about my troubles...here I feel Believers are to literally be filled and enjoy the presence of the Holy Ghost. Paul goes on to show how...

Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Why do you think Paul chose to compare the Holy Ghost to being drunk?...or why do you think on the day of Pentecost people thought they had downed large quantities of alcohol...was it something in their behaviour?"

Paul was comparing drunk ( a work of the flesh) as opposing to the fruit of the Spirit.. temperance which is self control which is of the Holy Ghost. Can a house divided stand? Joy cannot mean drunkenness if temperance is self-control. Why would God mimick a work of the flesh if He condemns it? And in response to the book of Acts, the person that was saying that was mocking them when they were declaring the wonderful works of God in foreign languages. Remember? It was after the comment about how the Jews were speaking in their native tongues. It did not say they were falling down or acting drunk.. just that they were declaring the wonderful works of God in foreign languages. They were mocking that.

Here is a warning about being drunk in His presence that I think is apt. Do note verse 26 and ponder the significance of that statement.

Luke 13: 23Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, 24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

You say that reprobate word in response in how one gets drunk with wine in the old days and how they are to be literally filled with the Spirit, alluding to being drunk in the Spirit later on above, but with the scriptures I had posted above, this is how the word reprobate is used.

2 Corinthians 13: 5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

How can one be drunk in His presence and not be known by Him? Because He dwells in is. That is the only way that has been testified by Jesus as knowing the Holy Ghost.

John 15: 15If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Ask yourself this question. What are the commandments that are neccessary to keep in order to get the Holy Ghost? It can't be everything He taught because His standard are higher than the works of the law, and we need Him in us to live the christian life so then.. what are those commandments? ANSWER: His invitations. If we go back from verse 15, we see Jesus talking about His relationship with the Father until we come to verse 6.

John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I know this is the proper translation because of these following scriptures.

Ephesians 1: 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

In the book of Acts, they did not call for the Holy Spirit to come. They did not condition themselves nor pray for long periods of time. They were preaching the Gospel and when someone believed, the Holy Ghost fell on the new believers as promised. If we look at the doctrine of our faith and then read the book of Acts, we can know what is really going on, but people keep referring to the book of Acts to validate their experiences and IGNORING the rest of scriptures which speaks plainly of the doctrines regarding our faith.

I have heard how in this continual filling or receiving power that people develop a hunger for more of God.. for more of that, and with their focus on the "visitation", Jesus says this...

John 6: 35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

So they hunger for more of God.. but it is not of God because Jesus says to that.. that is not me. Can one understand how Jesus can say now.. I knew you not?

When people look for a sign of God's presence.. a touch.. or whatever... is this not a real danger of relating to another spirit, thinking it is the Holy Spirit when we know that we can't get closer to the Holy Spirit being outside of us than He is in us?

Matthew 12: 38Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Are we committing spiritual adultery in the latter days when the indwelling Holy Ghost seeks to point us to Jesus Christ, testifying of Him and glorifying Him because the name of Jesus is above every other name and yet.. people are pointing to what they claim to be the Holy Spirit as if the invitations points to the Holy Spirit?

1 Timothy 2: 1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

If we are living in the latter days, where are these seducing spirits if what goes on in the "holy laughter" movement or when people start acting drunken in the spirit are not the seducing spirits we have been warned about? Why is it that these words are being ignored when testing the spirits about knowing Him being greater in us than .. in the world or shall I say.. in the worship place?

1 John 3: 22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Chapter 4

1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

What is of the world? They have to call up their spirit guides, their ghosts, their Great Spirit, and etc. again and again, but it should not be so with those in Christ Jesus for He comes to dwell in us at the time of salvation and abides in us forever.

Matthew 24: 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.

I do not believe the Holy Spirit seeks worship when He seeks to glorify Jesus Christ. If he will not speak of himself, then how can anyone say that he wants to be worshipped? The role of the Holy Ghost as the Divine Witness is that he will bear testimony of Jesus Christ.. having the spotlight only on Jesus Christ.. thereby glorifying God the Father in Heaven.

And so are we to also.

John 5: 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Where is there any mention of honoring the Holy Spirit?

John 13: 31Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

Where is there any mention of glorifying the Holy Spirit?

John 17: 1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

I still do not see any mentioning of glorifying the Holy Spirit, and yet He is God also. Why is that? Because He is the Divine Witness. Remember how John the Baptist witnessed?

John 3: 28Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom

[Botz]

Thanks Pariah..This is an interesting topic and I appreciate the way you set things out clearly and with solid biblical references.

I think there is a fine line between constant glorification of the Holy Ghost and the occasional thanks or unfettered joy that the Holy Ghost fills us with.

It seems though that when one recognizes the work of the Holy Ghost one is at the same time recognizing the presence of the Father and the Son.

There is an obvious danger of calling the presence of the Holy Ghost as being not from G-d or a deceiving spirit that is seducing the Church...now I know we must be aware of the possibility...but that is a huge and dangerous leap..from people going a bit over the top with the presence of G-d and the laughter and all...and some trying to manufacture the presence of G-d or to create a systematic method that will introduce us into His presence.

The test for a spirit that is other than the Holy Spirit is given here...

1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

I believe here John is talking about the motivating factor in a persons life.

A Believer will love Jesus and his whole emphasis will be on the L-rd and the Kingdom...a person who says he is a Believer ( but is not really )will not be able to disguise the true nature of his heart because he will be unable to acknowledge Jesus from the heart and this is the anti-Christ spirit (worldly spirit).

However unusual some of the emphasis might be...I do not think this is applicable to the vast majority of faith preachers...whereas it is certainly evident amongst the ecumenical movement that you mentioned in an earlier post...where compromise with the world and other religions is predominant.

The reference I made to drunkenness was no so much to do with lack of self control but more to do with being overwhelmed with joy...being filled to overflowing with the living waters...enjoying the lovely presence of G-d...which at times might appear similar to a person being uninhibited through alcohol.

When at Pentecost the disciples were extolling G-d in various languages I believe they were also unbelievably joyful..pushing and shoving each other as they laughed and extolled the King of Glory..it was a glorious time....so I believe some of the crowd were mocking more than just the unusual phenomena of glossalalia...It was a noisy,joyous wonderful moment...with much shouting and jostling...amazing. ( This is how I picture the scene ).

You said...

In the book of Acts, they did not call for the Holy Spirit to come. They did not condition themselves nor pray for long periods of time. They were preaching the Gospel and when someone believed, the Holy Ghost fell on the new believers as promised. If we look at the doctrine of our faith and then read the book of Acts, we can know what is really going on, but people keep referring to the book of Acts to validate their experiences and IGNORING the rest of scriptures which speaks plainly of the doctrines regarding our faith.

Acts1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,

Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

I would say that they cried out to G-d for the promise...they asked for the Holy Ghost to come....they believed what the L-rd had said to them and were obedient in asking for the Holy Ghost of promise...perhaps the words of the L-rd..

Luke11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

...also encouraged them to be persistant and to wait expectantly.

You also wrote..

When people look for a sign of God's presence.. a touch.. or whatever... is this not a real danger of relating to another spirit, thinking it is the Holy Spirit when we know that we can't get closer to the Holy Spirit being outside of us than He is in us?

I think there are always dangers lurking for Believers...and many nowadays look for constant reassurance of the presence of G-d and become very 'feeling' orientated...I also believe you are correct in what you hinted at...that many run after signs and phenomena to validate their faith...or just to encourage them in their faith...there are indeed many pitfalls.

I also understand what you are getting at about how we can't have any more of the Holy Ghost than we already have...He dwells within us...amen. This does not however mean that there are not times when the presence of G-d is just so evident and overwhelming...or that you cannot be refreshed/encouraged/challenged with a fresh touch from heaven...even on a daily basis whether you get the doodabs or not.

Spirit of the Living God