Do secular individuals exhibit faith?

[Bonky]

It takes some time, attention to detail, and ciphering:

 

(Daniel 9:25) "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

 

This Scripture gave us an Equation     

 

These are Seventy Weeks of years.  We in our current time are in the interval between the 69th and 70th week.  Once that 70th week hits, the last 7 year period, well..... that's for another study

Verse 25 is astounding because the Angel Gabriel is predicting when Jesus will ride into Jerusalem and pronounce his Kingship the first time.   Which just happened to be April 6, 32 AD.  Lets see how accurate Gabriel was with his message 500 years before it happened... just in case you're wondering about the 360 day year below, that's the way all Calendars were constructed in those days.  Lets continue:  "seven weeks, and threescore and 2 weeks" = 69 weeks

69 (weeks) x 7 (days in a week) x 360 days= 173,880 days (From the Decree to rebuild Jerusalem to Jesus Triumphal Entry)

The decree to rebuild Jerusalem was ordered by Artaxerses Longimanus 14 March, 445 BC (SEE: Sir Robert Anderson, The Coming Prince).  From 445 BC to 32 AD is 173,740 days.  March 14 to April 6th is 24 days.  So that gives us 173,764 days.  Shocking how close it was....Prophecy 173,880, reality 173,764.  GOD was close, good try.....ah but wait   What did we forget....LEAP YEAR DAYS!!  How many, well that would be exactly 116 days.  so 173,764 days + 116 days =

173,880 Days!!!

What was Gabriel's margin of error?? ......  = ZERO!!

Sure if you just accept these dates. There are scholars that don't agree with the date given for the order to rebuild from Artaxerses. As a matter of fact, some offer a different year entirely. So you've spit out a lot of dates, but you act as if you have these dates objectively nailed down almost to the minute. As you can see, prophecy is a slippery topic, so much wiggle room to massage dates and numbers. It doesn't impress me, I'm sorry.

[Enoch2021]

 

It takes some time, attention to detail, and ciphering:

 

(Daniel 9:25) "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

 

This Scripture gave us an Equation     

 

These are Seventy Weeks of years.  We in our current time are in the interval between the 69th and 70th week.  Once that 70th week hits, the last 7 year period, well..... that's for another study

Verse 25 is astounding because the Angel Gabriel is predicting when Jesus will ride into Jerusalem and pronounce his Kingship the first time.   Which just happened to be April 6, 32 AD.  Lets see how accurate Gabriel was with his message 500 years before it happened... just in case you're wondering about the 360 day year below, that's the way all Calendars were constructed in those days.  Lets continue:  "seven weeks, and threescore and 2 weeks" = 69 weeks

69 (weeks) x 7 (days in a week) x 360 days= 173,880 days (From the Decree to rebuild Jerusalem to Jesus Triumphal Entry)

The decree to rebuild Jerusalem was ordered by Artaxerses Longimanus 14 March, 445 BC (SEE: Sir Robert Anderson, The Coming Prince).  From 445 BC to 32 AD is 173,740 days.  March 14 to April 6th is 24 days.  So that gives us 173,764 days.  Shocking how close it was....Prophecy 173,880, reality 173,764.  GOD was close, good try.....ah but wait   What did we forget....LEAP YEAR DAYS!!  How many, well that would be exactly 116 days.  so 173,764 days + 116 days =

173,880 Days!!!

What was Gabriel's margin of error?? ......  = ZERO!!

Sure if you just accept these dates. There are scholars that don't agree with the date given for the order to rebuild from Artaxerses. As a matter of fact, some offer a different year entirely. So you've spit out a lot of dates, but you act as if you have these dates objectively nailed down almost to the minute. As you can see, prophecy is a slippery topic, so much wiggle room to massage dates and numbers. It doesn't impress me, I'm sorry.

 

 

 

=======================================================================================

 

There are scholars that don't agree with the date given for the order to rebuild from Artaxerses. As a matter of fact, some offer a different year entirely.

 

 

Those "Scholars" with the different Dates have one tiny "pay attention to detail problem" that's sitting right there in front of them....

 

(Daniel 9:25) "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

 

"commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem" and "the street shall be built again, and the wall"

 

 

There are 3 other dates proposed due to "Commands/Decrees" to Rebuild....and you know what they "ALL" have in Common?  They all speak to the "Temple" being rebuilt---- Not the City.

 

1. Cyrus, 537 BC   Ezra 1: 2-4

2. Darius, Ezra 6:1-5, 8:12

3. Artaxerxes, 448 BC  Ezra 7:11-20

 

** 4. Artaxerxes, 445 BC  Neh 2:5-8, 17, 18 (This is the only one of the 4 that Specifically deal with the CITY of Jerusalem.  GOD is very Precise

 

What does Gabriel tell Daniel, Specifically: The commandment to Restore an build "Jerusalem"...."The Street" and "The Wall" (chartus = "wall, moat")  for further Emphasis.

 

There's only 1 Commandment for that....Artaxerses Longimanus 14 March, 445 BC (SEE: Sir Robert Anderson, The Coming Prince).  Sir Robert Anderson was Knighted and the Head of Scotland Yard...the Date is Certifiable!

 

 

As you can see, prophecy is a slippery topic, so much wiggle room to massage dates and numbers. It doesn't impress me, I'm sorry.

 

Sir, as shown above....you need to consider, reconsidering your position.

 

(Revelation 21:6) "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely."

 

Praise The LORD!

[Bonky]

Sir Robert Anderson was Knighted and the Head of Scotland Yard...the Date is Certifiable!

Was he there? I've been taught from my creationist buddies that you really can't be certain unless you were there.

[Enoch2021]

 

Sir Robert Anderson was Knighted and the Head of Scotland Yard...the Date is Certifiable!

Was he there? I've been taught from my creationist buddies that you really can't be certain unless you were there.

 

 

 

It's doubtful, he died November 15, 1918;  That would have made him roughly 2363 years old.

 

However, it falls in the area of Historical Documentation...which he was able to track down.

 

And you're conflating two different Issues:

 

Historical Documentation vs Science; with different criterion, respectively:

 

To Validate "Science" it has to conform to the Scientific Method:

 

Step 1: Observe a Phenomenon

Step 2: Lit Review

Step 3: Hypothesis

Step 4: TEST/EXPERIMENT

Step 5: Analyze Data

Step 6: Valid/Invalid Hypothesis

Step 7: Report Results

 

To be Reliable Historical Documentation:

 

1) The number of available copies of ancient manuscripts.

2) the time span between the original version and the date of those copies still in existence today.

3) Consistency of those manuscripts.

 

If you question the Validity of this....then to be logically and intellectually consistent; you would have to deny the existence of (Just a few examples)....

 

Alexander The Great

Plato

Socrates

Aristotle

Julius Caesar

Homer

and Thousands of others

 

Any other concerns?

[Bonky]

To be Reliable Historical Documentation:

 

1) The number of available copies of ancient manuscripts.

2) the time span between the original version and the date of those copies still in existence today.

3) Consistency of those manuscripts.

 

If you question the Validity of this....then to be logically and intellectually consistent; you would have to deny the existence of (Just a few examples)....

 

Alexander The Great

Plato

Socrates

Aristotle

Julius Caesar

Homer

and Thousands of others

 

Any other concerns?

Yes I have major concerns. Questioning the exact date that a decree was given in antiquity is a far cry from doubting the entire existence of a person. I'm not doubting the existence of Artaxerxes. On top of that, you haven't shown any accuracy with any manuscripts, you've given the name of a man who was knighted and claim that he knows this date to be accurate.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like you've offered any good support for your claim in this ancient prophecy. A claim that even if shown to be true, doesn't do much to answer my original question; why should I have confidence that the Bible speaks accurate of the creator?

[Guest]

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like you've offered any good support for your claim in this ancient prophecy....

 

A claim that even if shown to be true, doesn't do much to answer my original question....

 

why should I have confidence that the Bible speaks accurate of the creator....

 

 

Beloved,

 

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

 

Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

 

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

 

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. Titus 2:11-14

 

No Matter The Evidence

He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8

 

9. Israel's deserts will become like the Garden of Eden

 

Bible passage: Isaiah 51:3

 

Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC

 

Fulfilled: Being fulfilled now

 

In Isaiah 51:3, the prophet said that God will restore Israel and make it a paradise, like the garden of Eden. This foreshadows what is currently happening in Israel. The Jews have been irrigating, cultivating and reconditioning the land during much of the 1900s. Many of the country's swamps, which had been infested with malaria, have been converted into farmland. And water from the Sea of Galilee has been channeled through portions of the deserts, allowing some of the deserts to bloom. Much work remains, but parts of Israel are blooming again. Although it was described as a wasteland as recently as the late 1800s, Israel is now a food source for many countries. And at least 200 million of trees have been planted there during the past century.

 

Here is Isaiah 51:3

 

The Lord will surely comfort Zion and will look with compassion on all her ruins; he will make her deserts like Eden, her wastelands like the garden of the Lord. Joy and gladness will be found in her, thanksgiving and the sound of singing. http://www.therefinersfire.org/recent_prophecy.htm

 

You Can't Believe Unless God

 

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

 

First Gives You

 

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

 

Faith

 

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

[Enoch2021]

 

To be Reliable Historical Documentation:

 

1) The number of available copies of ancient manuscripts.

2) the time span between the original version and the date of those copies still in existence today.

3) Consistency of those manuscripts.

 

If you question the Validity of this....then to be logically and intellectually consistent; you would have to deny the existence of (Just a few examples)....

 

Alexander The Great

Plato

Socrates

Aristotle

Julius Caesar

Homer

and Thousands of others

 

Any other concerns?

Yes I have major concerns. Questioning the exact date that a decree was given in antiquity is a far cry from doubting the entire existence of a person. I'm not doubting the existence of Artaxerxes. On top of that, you haven't shown any accuracy with any manuscripts, you've given the name of a man who was knighted and claim that he knows this date to be accurate.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like you've offered any good support for your claim in this ancient prophecy. A claim that even if shown to be true, doesn't do much to answer my original question; why should I have confidence that the Bible speaks accurate of the creator?

 

 

 

==================================================================================

 

 

Yes I have major concerns. Questioning the exact date that a decree was given in antiquity is a far cry from doubting the entire existence of a person.

 

Why?  They are both acquired through the Exact Same Method....Historical Documentation.

 

 

On top of that, you haven't shown any accuracy with any manuscripts, you've given the name of a man who was knighted and claim that he knows this date to be accurate.

 

I gave you the Name and Reference (Sir Robert Anderson, The Book....."The Coming Prince")  Would you like me to have it Notarized?

 

 

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like you've offered any good support for your claim in this ancient prophecy

 

This is a Preposterous Claim by the very fact and substance of the last 4 posts (That are still sitting there)...with the detailed explanation/support provided. 

 

 

A claim that even if shown to be true, doesn't do much to answer my original question; why should I have confidence that the Bible speaks accurate of the creator?

 

[Bonky]

Even if this "prophecy" was true it wouldn't necessitate that the rest of the Bible is accurate about the nature of the creator. If I was to predict something in the future and it came to pass, does that mean everything I say is true?

[Enoch2021]

 

Even if this "prophecy" was true it wouldn't necessitate that the rest of the Bible is accurate about the nature of the creator. If I was to predict something in the future and it came to pass, does that mean everything I say is true?

 

 

 

===================================================================================

 

Even if this "prophecy" was true

 

It most assuredly is True as I've comprehensively Illustrated. 

 

 

it wouldn't necessitate that the rest of the Bible is accurate about the nature of the creator.

 

I agree.  It's cumulative, See steps I and II in previous post.

 

 

If I was to predict something in the future and it came to pass, does that mean everything I say is true?

 

As I said, it's a Cumulative Scenario.  AND....if you told me something of the utter scale, magnitude and detail of This Specific Prophecy (There are literally over 1800 Prophecies) and it came to pass exactly as foretold; Well...You would surely capture my attention x 10^{00000000000000000000000000000000000000 ------>}

[jerryR34]

 

 

Even if this "prophecy" was true it wouldn't necessitate that the rest of the Bible is accurate about the nature of the creator. If I was to predict something in the future and it came to pass, does that mean everything I say is true?

 

 

 

===================================================================================

 

Even if this "prophecy" was true

 

It most assuredly is True as I've comprehensively Illustrated. 

 

 

it wouldn't necessitate that the rest of the Bible is accurate about the nature of the creator.

 

I agree.  It's cumulative, See steps I and II in previous post.

 

 

If I was to predict something in the future and it came to pass, does that mean everything I say is true?

 

As I said, it's a Cumulative Scenario.  AND....if you told me something of the utter scale, magnitude and detail of This Specific Prophecy (There are literally over 1800 Prophecies) and it came to pass exactly as foretold; Well...You would surely capture my attention x 10^{00000000000000000000000000000000000000 ------>}

 

The prophecies in the Bible are so vague as to render any meaningful probability analysis worthless.  You can add as many ^{00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000} as you want.