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About Bonky

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  1. That same thought process is what led people to think various illnesses were the work of evil spirits. You don't solve mysteries by appealing to bigger mysteries.
  2. Except that you may be forgetting that I came out of Christianity given my upbringing. I didn't know any better but to believe. It wasn't forced on me in an abusive way but it's what I was taught since I was around 5 or so. I'm only responding to the claims I see the in the Bible and I hear Christians regularly make. So let's say someone has a faith paradigm that they can't be wrong about X. You think that's logical merely because they believe it is within their worldview? People can believe what they want, but when those people ask others to believe the same then I have every reason to press them for more details and give me confidence that they're on the right track. It makes no sense for me to promote something I can't defend. Do you also deny that the Bible states that I am w/o excuse? This isn't misguided Christians it's their scripture telling them that people are horrible and you can't trust them etc. I've spent too much time in the Bible and in church I know the talking points.
  3. Right so given the unverifiable claims in the past how did we get this confidence again? I guess we'll answer that below. That's nice for those special chosen ones but what about the rest of us lol. If I want a relationship with someone I don't play games. Relationships aren't hard...and considering what's at stake?
  4. Aren't we talking about something above and beyond confidence though? It's not like any of this is settled, far from it. We're talking about things that happened way in the past and much is relied on "eye witness" which you stated requires another level of faith. Doesn't sound like something people should hold dogmatic views on but that's just me. I agree. I feel that I have grown a lot in this area since 12 years ago when I started getting involved in these discussions. I used to be more dismissive of things but I realized that wasn't wise. I agree here too. Keep in mind now, I have often [and I mean often] heard from Christians that being a non believer must mean "I'm willfully ignorant", "too prideful", and that when this is all over I deserve to be tortured forever. It goes both ways. I haven't read his conversion article in years but if you search "Why I Left Young-Earth Creationism" by Glenn Morton he writes about it there.
  5. What makes you so sure the Earth isn't filled with bubble gum in the center? I don't deny that I trust well established "facts" by the scientific community. Faith is also how some parents pray for their child to be healed and they die because they weren't properly cared for. Having faith to fill a gap that you can't fill yourself [via evidence etc] is one thing, having "faith" as a primary means of latching onto something that is "true" and then defending it no matter what is where you lose me.
  6. Except the person saying this has concluded that their initial assessment or guidance in these matters is spot on and is infallible. That wasn't the reason why I mentioned it. As a matter of fact, Glenn Morton didn't leave Christianity. He just stated that he could no longer accept young earth creationism based on his field work. I was just meaning to provide a real life example of someone who went through a fairly major change in religious views/interpretations due to what they viewed solid evidence for an opposing view. Some people would have kept their views in tact because they aren't open to such modifications in their theism.
  7. You would think it would matter more. Considering the Bible claims that you have supernatural guidance [Holy Spirit] and yet some view hell as a place of eternal torment and some view it as a place of ultimate destruction. Or whether or not water baptism is necessary for salvation etc. Perhaps no obligation, but odd behavior to be silent when you claim to want a personal relationship.
  8. People such as William Lane Craig etc are able to see it that way. I lean towards the stardust idea. The building blocks of life are carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus and sulfur. Using spectroscopy a lot of data has been captured about the abundance of life building elements and they are more concentrated in the center of our galaxy than the outer regions. I don't think that's conclusive at all but it's certainly interesting.
  9. The Universe "is what it is". Holy hand grenades I didn't realize we discovered everything already, wow! It's funny because if someone brings up the speed of light or radio decay suddenly I hear "You don't know what the variables are on the other side of the Universe!". Now suddenly we know everything and Universe is small and simple. We have NO scientific observation about the ultimate nature of the Universe. Once again I'll guarantee you any time secular arguments are brought up about the big bang or what have you we'll hear "You can't possible know that, mans knowledge is so limited...." blah blah. Also we are still discovering new elements do you realize that?
  10. And that little word "dust" will be used in whatever way is convenient for the user. Without any hard work someone could propose that dust means the elements that we are composed of [created ex nihilo by God] and a theistic evolutionist could say it's referring to "star dust" which is what many scientists would say all earthly matter [source material for our bodies etc] came from.
  11. You seem way too confident in things that have been debated for centuries. If someone is convinced that hell does exist do they have "free will" in seeking out Christ? I don't see how someone could argue that they do. Anyway you may need to focus on a couple/few items that you want to discuss. You brought up some topics that are monstrous in size and go on to the next one and the next. You mentioned if I believe in "evil". I don't believe in "sin" but I believe in malicious intent if that's all you mean. You've defined a soul [I'm being generous here] but you didn't provide support for it. What in the world does "immaterial essence" mean? There are Christians that don't believe in hell the way you do, they believe the "soul" is destroyed. I also don't see the necessity for hell to exist merely because heaven does.
  12. If you're asking if I've personally spent time to verify everything that scientists believe the answer is no, I'll wager I'm not that different from every single other human that's ever existed. If I wanted to I could start researching anything that I'm not convinced of and see if it really has merit. I find it very bizarre that you're harping on what we know and don't know today regarding things we can [often times] physically check and verify; but your theistic views are anchored around things that may have happened in antiquity recorded by "eye witness" or oral tradition etc etc. You're not exactly showing me a better path to truth.
  13. I think you need to relax. If you're heading down a path of ad hominem attacks or character attacks I'm not interested in wasting my time in that way.
  14. Hold on, I never came close to saying black holes exist and I know this as a truth. I said scientists seem to believe that they do exist, I can't personally confirm or deny because I'm not trained to do so. Every one of us is limited in the same way, how many people become a surgeon in order to have surgery so that they can confirm the surgeon knows what he's doing? You have faith or trust that they do. Also, whether or not black holes exist doesn't have any bearing on my life, so I haven't aggressively researched it. Science is in the business of telling us what's not true, not what is. With regard to martyrs, people have set themselves on fire over what they believed. This tells us nothing about whether what they believed is/was true. We have eye witness testimony of all kinds that people generally are skeptical about [alien abductions].
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