Enoch2021 Posted October 24, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Where'd the Already "existing" Matter come from in the first place?? Is the question. The 1st Law of Thermodynamics "Pillar of Science" states: Matter/Energy can not be Created or Destroyed...just change Form. And we are here; SO, if Nature can't do it, then.....GOD is your only Choice. Matter has always been. ====================================================================================================== Matter has always been. Factually Incorrect. CITE source......? So you're saying the Universe is Eternal, eh? “The universe is thus progressing toward an ultimate ‘heat death’ or, as it is technically defined, a condition of ‘maximum entropy’ . . And there is no way of avoiding this destiny. For the fateful principle known as the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which stands today as the principal pillar of classical physics left intact by the march of science, proclaims that the fundamental processes of nature are irreversible. Nature moves only one way.” [Lincoln Barnett, The Universe and Dr. Einstein (1957), pp. 102-103.] 1st Law: The total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant. 2nd Law: The amount of energy available for work is running out, and the Universe is moving inexorably to "Maximum Entropy" or Heat Death. If the total amount of mass-energy is constant, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted all usable energy—the ‘heat death’ of the universe. “All the evidence we have says that the universe had a beginning.” “It can’t possibly be eternal in the past. There must be some kind of boundary.” Cosmologist Alexander Vilenkin, Tufts University Boston. Grossman, L., Death of the eternal cosmos, New Scientist 213(2847):6–7, 14 January 2012. “several different models of the universe that dodge the need for a beginning while still requiring a big bang. But recent research has shot them full of holes (see page 6). It now seems certain that the universe did have a beginning.” Editorial: In the beginning … , New Scientist 213(2847):3, 14 January 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryR34 Posted October 24, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 588 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/22/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1969 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Where'd the Already "existing" Matter come from in the first place?? Is the question. The 1st Law of Thermodynamics "Pillar of Science" states: Matter/Energy can not be Created or Destroyed...just change Form. And we are here; SO, if Nature can't do it, then.....GOD is your only Choice. Matter has always been. ====================================================================================================== Matter has always been. Factually Incorrect. CITE source......? So you're saying the Universe is Eternal, eh? “The universe is thus progressing toward an ultimate ‘heat death’ or, as it is technically defined, a condition of ‘maximum entropy’ . . And there is no way of avoiding this destiny. For the fateful principle known as the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which stands today as the principal pillar of classical physics left intact by the march of science, proclaims that the fundamental processes of nature are irreversible. Nature moves only one way.” [Lincoln Barnett, The Universe and Dr. Einstein (1957), pp. 102-103.] 1st Law: The total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant. 2nd Law: The amount of energy available for work is running out, and the Universe is moving inexorably to "Maximum Entropy" or Heat Death. If the total amount of mass-energy is constant, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted all usable energy—the ‘heat death’ of the universe. “All the evidence we have says that the universe had a beginning.” “It can’t possibly be eternal in the past. There must be some kind of boundary.” Cosmologist Alexander Vilenkin, Tufts University Boston. Grossman, L., Death of the eternal cosmos, New Scientist 213(2847):6–7, 14 January 2012. “several different models of the universe that dodge the need for a beginning while still requiring a big bang. But recent research has shot them full of holes (see page 6). It now seems certain that the universe did have a beginning.” Editorial: In the beginning … , New Scientist 213(2847):3, 14 January 2012 I will cite you: "The 1st Law of Thermodynamics "Pillar of Science" states: Matter/Energy can not be Created or Destroyed...just change Form. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted October 25, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Where'd the Already "existing" Matter come from in the first place?? Is the question. The 1st Law of Thermodynamics "Pillar of Science" states: Matter/Energy can not be Created or Destroyed...just change Form. And we are here; SO, if Nature can't do it, then.....GOD is your only Choice. Matter has always been. ====================================================================================================== Matter has always been. Factually Incorrect. CITE source......? So you're saying the Universe is Eternal, eh? “The universe is thus progressing toward an ultimate ‘heat death’ or, as it is technically defined, a condition of ‘maximum entropy’ . . And there is no way of avoiding this destiny. For the fateful principle known as the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which stands today as the principal pillar of classical physics left intact by the march of science, proclaims that the fundamental processes of nature are irreversible. Nature moves only one way.” [Lincoln Barnett, The Universe and Dr. Einstein (1957), pp. 102-103.] 1st Law: The total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant. 2nd Law: The amount of energy available for work is running out, and the Universe is moving inexorably to "Maximum Entropy" or Heat Death. If the total amount of mass-energy is constant, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted all usable energy—the ‘heat death’ of the universe. “All the evidence we have says that the universe had a beginning.” “It can’t possibly be eternal in the past. There must be some kind of boundary.” Cosmologist Alexander Vilenkin, Tufts University Boston. Grossman, L., Death of the eternal cosmos, New Scientist 213(2847):6–7, 14 January 2012. “several different models of the universe that dodge the need for a beginning while still requiring a big bang. But recent research has shot them full of holes (see page 6). It now seems certain that the universe did have a beginning.” Editorial: In the beginning … , New Scientist 213(2847):3, 14 January 2012 I will cite you: "The 1st Law of Thermodynamics "Pillar of Science" states: Matter/Energy can not be Created or Destroyed...just change Form. " =================================================================================================== I will cite you: "The 1st Law of Thermodynamics "Pillar of Science" states: Matter/Energy can not be Created or Destroyed...just change Form. " I like being CITED, Thanks. So what's the Problem? Ya see, The Laws of Thermodynamics are "NATURAL LAWS"...i.e., "Nature" can't Create or Destroy Matter or Energy. We are Here...well most of us; what's the last and only choice?? (Revelation 21:6) "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scintillic_Atom_Marriage Posted October 25, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 22 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/16/1993 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) <<<Removed insult/debating the person>>> Please remember to debate the subject, not the person (per the Terms of Service). If you are getting frustrated with someone it may be best to step away from the thread for a time. Edited October 25, 2014 by Steve_S ToS violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted October 25, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) Removed content due to it containing remove content - SteveS. Edited October 25, 2014 by Steve_S Removed quoted ToS violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted October 25, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Removed content due to it containing remove content - SteveS. Steve S, Yes, sorry....I was replying and didn't see your message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scintillic_Atom_Marriage Posted October 25, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 22 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/16/1993 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Yeah. OK. That was out of line. Enoch: I apologize without reservation. Enoch: Saying that "Matter has always been" equals "The Universe is Eternal." Is a strawman. The universe could very well be eternal as the cosmos could encompass an inter-dimensional causal chain, looping back in on itself or there could be come causal dead zone with an intelligence residing in it (God) or something or something else that I don't know but near as we can tell matter and this universe made from it has been around for a finite time. Matter, or the energetic components that make up matter, came into existence at the same point or as close to the same point that we cannot currently differentiate them as time. A number of billions of years ago that I don't feel like looking up. To say that something existed before a "First Event" is nonsensical. And I'm fairly certain that we don't have evidence to support there being anything before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryR34 Posted October 25, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 588 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/22/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1969 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Where'd the Already "existing" Matter come from in the first place?? Is the question. The 1st Law of Thermodynamics "Pillar of Science" states: Matter/Energy can not be Created or Destroyed...just change Form. And we are here; SO, if Nature can't do it, then.....GOD is your only Choice. Matter has always been. ====================================================================================================== Matter has always been. Factually Incorrect. CITE source......? So you're saying the Universe is Eternal, eh? “The universe is thus progressing toward an ultimate ‘heat death’ or, as it is technically defined, a condition of ‘maximum entropy’ . . And there is no way of avoiding this destiny. For the fateful principle known as the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which stands today as the principal pillar of classical physics left intact by the march of science, proclaims that the fundamental processes of nature are irreversible. Nature moves only one way.” [Lincoln Barnett, The Universe and Dr. Einstein (1957), pp. 102-103.] 1st Law: The total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant. 2nd Law: The amount of energy available for work is running out, and the Universe is moving inexorably to "Maximum Entropy" or Heat Death. If the total amount of mass-energy is constant, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted all usable energy—the ‘heat death’ of the universe. “All the evidence we have says that the universe had a beginning.” “It can’t possibly be eternal in the past. There must be some kind of boundary.” Cosmologist Alexander Vilenkin, Tufts University Boston. Grossman, L., Death of the eternal cosmos, New Scientist 213(2847):6–7, 14 January 2012. “several different models of the universe that dodge the need for a beginning while still requiring a big bang. But recent research has shot them full of holes (see page 6). It now seems certain that the universe did have a beginning.” Editorial: In the beginning … , New Scientist 213(2847):3, 14 January 2012 I will cite you: "The 1st Law of Thermodynamics "Pillar of Science" states: Matter/Energy can not be Created or Destroyed...just change Form. " =================================================================================================== I will cite you: "The 1st Law of Thermodynamics "Pillar of Science" states: Matter/Energy can not be Created or Destroyed...just change Form. " I like being CITED, Thanks. So what's the Problem? Ya see, The Laws of Thermodynamics are "NATURAL LAWS"...i.e., "Nature" can't Create or Destroy Matter or Energy. We are Here...well most of us; what's the last and only choice?? (Revelation 21:6) "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely." infinite regress....it's turtles all the way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Even if this "prophecy" was true.... it wouldn't necessitate that the rest of the Bible.... is accurate about the nature of the creator.... If I was to predict something in the future.... and it came to pass, does that mean.... everything I say is true.... Beloved I Know The LORD And You Are Not Him “My thoughts are nothing like your thoughts,” says the Lord. “And my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine. For just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts. “The rain and snow come down from the heavens and stay on the ground to water the earth. They cause the grain to grow, producing seed for the farmer and bread for the hungry. It is the same with my word. I send it out, and it always produces fruit. It will accomplish all I want it to, and it will prosper everywhere I send it. Isaiah 55:8-11 (NLT) And To Know Your Creator Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation, for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see— such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him. He existed before anything else, and he holds all creation together. Colossians 1:15-17 (NLT) Open Your Eyes "You are worthy, O Lord our God, to receive glory and honor and power. For you created all things, and they exist because you created what you pleased." Revelation 4:11 (NLT) With Faith So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the message about Christ. Romans 10:17 (HCSB) And Be Blessed Beloved God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. Ephesians 2:8-9 (NLT) Love, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted October 25, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Yeah. OK. That was out of line. Enoch: I apologize without reservation. Enoch: Saying that "Matter has always been" equals "The Universe is Eternal." Is a strawman. The universe could very well be eternal as the cosmos could encompass an inter-dimensional causal chain, looping back in on itself or there could be come causal dead zone with an intelligence residing in it (God) or something or something else that I don't know but near as we can tell matter and this universe made from it has been around for a finite time. Matter, or the energetic components that make up matter, came into existence at the same point or as close to the same point that we cannot currently differentiate them as time. A number of billions of years ago that I don't feel like looking up. To say that something existed before a "First Event" is nonsensical. And I'm fairly certain that we don't have evidence to support there being anything before that. ============================================================================================================ Enoch: I apologize without reservation. No worries....I've suffered through much much worse. It's part of the Job Description. Enoch: Saying that "Matter has always been" equals "The Universe is Eternal." Is a strawman. Nope, it's not. If he was saying "Matter has always been" but not Eternal...it's just been here since the Beginning of the Universe...then ok, I guess that's fair. But where did the first matter come from....? The universe could very well be eternal as the cosmos could encompass an inter-dimensional causal chain No it can't....unless you take the Laws of Thermodynamics "Pillars of Science" to the Woodshed and beat them Senseless. And you're well outside "science" with "inter-dimensional" loops. I can say with equal "Scientific Vigor" that there were 3 toed gnomes throwing pixie dust and de-mattered universes in a black hole behind the crab nebula. To say that something existed before a "First Event" is nonsensical. Factually and Logically Incorrect. For Finite (Matter...or anything else) to exist....Infinite or Eternal MUST Exist. SEE: Aristotle's: "Prime Mover"/Unmoved Mover". There has to be an Un-Caused First Cause for there to be anything Finite. And I'm fairly certain that we don't have evidence to support there being anything before that. Look in the mirror, are you Finite? If Yes, there MUST be Infinite/Eternal (SEE: Above) A number of billions of years ago that I don't feel like looking up. Begging The Question Fallacy. You're again, well outside "science's" purview here. Or, you can go ahead and Validate via the Scientific Method.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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