Alex Summers Posted March 6, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 225 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 27 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/29/1984 Share Posted March 6, 2015 We are taking about the Middle East here, nothing else. Bottom line, had Bush not invaded Iraq there would have been no need for a SOFA, not to mention that Bush could have gotten the SOFA before leaving office. And the lack of a central, strong power in the region lead to the Arab Spring. The two are tied together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 We go with an endless regression of causality that doesn't end with Bush, as to what if this or that hadn't happened. The bottom line is, it was Obama's responsibility to get the SOFA. His failure to do that resulted in a vacuum filled by ISIS. Obama, for a year ignored the growing threat and now we have what we have. It is Obama's fault that ISIS has become the problem that it is. The Arab Spring demonstrated the completely lack of leadership and competence of this adolescent administration. The Arab Spring was not brought on by Iraq. The US through Mubarak and Qadafi under the bus. Obama championed the Arab Spring he was friendly to the forces that forced out leaders that were friendly to the US. Obama armed the Libyan rebels Obama embraced Mohammed Morsi, the Muslim Brotherhood terrorist leader and Obama called for Mubarak to step down, even though Mubarak was our long time ally and Morsi has called for the destruction of the US. Obama played a major role in the Arab Spring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Summers Posted March 6, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 225 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 27 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/29/1984 Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) I do not disagree with you on Obama, but to gloss over the role Bush played in all this makes you appear to be a partisan hack not to be taken seriously in the realm of politics or world affairs. Edited March 6, 2015 by Alex Summers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Bush was out of office for three years before the Arab Spring and six years before ISIS. This is not Bush's fault. I didn't agree with the Iraq war either, but this cannot be reasonably blamed on Bush. Obama has to take the fall for his decisions and his policies that directly caused these problems. That's part of being an adult and being a leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I went to work as registrar's assistant at a local college. The girl who had my job prior to me really screwed up the filing system. She had some genius plan to restructure it but only succeeded in making a mess of it and we couldn't find files when we needed them. I was tasked with cleaning it up and putting everything back the way it was before she messed it up. I worked hard on it but after two weeks, I was not able to get the file cabinet completely back in order. But by that point, I was responsible for the file cabinet. It was my job and I was accountable for it. They did not let me blame the girl who was there. if something was wrong, I didn't get to blame my predecessor and pretend that I didn't have any responsibility. I was expected to produce results and if the results were not there, I was held accountable. I had to work overtime, to get the job done. That's how it works in the adult world, but if you're Obama, you think you can blame everyone else and anyone else for your policy failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Summers Posted March 6, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 225 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 27 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/29/1984 Share Posted March 6, 2015 You cannot view events in that part of the world through the time frame of US elections. Things take a while to percolate. If we wanted to get really serious we could take it back to the major mistake of letting the Shah be overthrown, but since then none of the presidents made a mistake as big as Bush's invasion of Iraq. It was a mistake of historic proportions that changed the entire paradigm of the region. We will be feeling the negative effects of that mistake for the next 50-60 years at least. Bush should never be let off the hook for his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeBernard Posted March 6, 2015 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 78 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/25/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 6, 2015 Bush can reasonably be held to account for the failure to stabilise Iraq post-invasion. Obama can be held to account for the final pullout. But neither are entirely to blame- there were other nations, notably the UK, there as well. We didn't have to leave, and am disappointed in the way that we did. As much as Obama's dithering may have failed the Arab Spring, Europe also dithered, waiting for US leadership that never arrived. Yes, the UK and France bombed Gaddafi, but our failure to then support the secular democrats in that country allowed the Muslim fascists into the void. I utterly reject the idea that any Western leader is responsible for ISIS. Evil men should held accountable for the evils that they do, and we should never let party politics ever blind us to that. Bush & Blair's foreign policy, or Obama's and Cameron's lack of one, is no excuse to cut the head off an aid worker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Obama IS responsible for creating the vacuum that ISIS filled and Obama IS responsible for underestimating the threat they posed and Obama IS responsible for ignoring a year of intelligence reports that warned him of the increasing threat. Obama is responsible for the current threat that ISIS poses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Summers Posted March 6, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 225 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 27 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/29/1984 Share Posted March 6, 2015 The vacuum was created the day that Sadam fell from power....who was responsible for that action? Can you even bring yourself to say it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 No, that's' not the day the vacuum was created. The vacuum was created because Obama wanted to keep a campaign promise to take very soldier out of Iraq. And he did it before the Iraqi government was in place. No Iraqi government and the lack of our presence created the vacuum. ISIS came in and filled the void. They will still in the process of creating a government and the Administration exited Iraq prematurely and failed to secure a SOFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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