If salvation is the gift of God..

[Convert]

Not sure if this has been brought up yet but one thing I would point out is that imo we, as Christians are no longer Sinners but that we are still sinners.

Sin is that which exists in our lives before we are Christians and that which damns us to an eternity in hell.

sins are the things we do to compromise our relationship with God on a frequent basis. Lying, cheating, adultry.... these are things that the human race will never be free of until the end of time. The only person who was not a sinner was Jesus.

[Guest wilburnh]

The reason why I said my curious belief had no bearing on the conversation(besides it having no bearing on the conversation) is because I can't remember if it is something I read in a scripture or if it was gathered from the meaning of several scriptures. As far as our days being numbered, this can be accomplished without God allowing Himself to know what our exact choices will be.

Is it in His will for us to sin? Is it in His will that any should perish? I think that this can not be answered by your belief because according to you human choice plays no part in the salvation process but if it doesn't then why are all these people being damned? You will say because He makes some to have mercy some to have their hearts hardened - but your translation goes directly against the scripture that it is His will that none should perish but that all should come to everlasting life. This is a huge discrepancy, I believe, for your belief with scripture.

Yes, we sin. However, it is through all the steps within our life that His perfect will for us is brought to fruition. The trials and tribulations that we go through are simply used by God to mold us into the image of His son. Hebrews 5 clearly says that Jesus, who was without sin, learned obedience through chastizement.

This only addresses Christians and in a manner I don't agree with at all -- for example divorce, adultery, murder.. these are all things that have been committed by christians and something I think we both agree is not in his will. Your quote does not address those who never come to know a saving grace and this is definitely not in His will. Also, I disagree with your suggestion of the meaning in hebrews five which says (if I misunderstood you I apologize)

8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

which is not the same chastised. To be chastised I believe on first must have done something wrong. We know that Christ never sinned so it must mean that the hardships that He went through being in the body of a man tested Him to prove His obedience.

Since I get a totally different view of Revelation three let me post it

2  Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

3  Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

4  Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

5  He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Verse two shows that there were some which were about to cross the line that I refer to as the lifestyle mark. Verse three says that these people not only heard but received the word and that they need to repent. If they do not repent then He will come upon them when they least expect. verse four shows how bad sardis was by saying even in sardis there are some which have not defiled their garments which means that some have defiled their garments. These people, if they do not repent (vs 3) will not overcome and we can see that only those who overcome will not have their names removed from the book of life. Overcoming goes hand in hand with running the race with diligence to the end and so on.

(Acts 13:48) -- "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" (King James Version).

13:48 ORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE. Some have understood this verse as teaching arbitrary predestination. However, neither the context nor the word translated "ordained" (Gk. tetagmenoi, from tasso) warrant this interpretation. (1) Verse 46 explicitly emphasizes human responsibility in accepting or rejecting eternal life. The best rendering of tetagmenoi, therefore, is "were disposed": "and as many as were disposed to eternal life believed." This rendering agrees completely with the affirmations of 1 Tim. 2:4; Titus 2:11; 2 Peter 3:9. (2) Furthermore, according to Paul no person is unconditionally appointed to eternal life (see Romans 11:20-22)."

from  http://www.dtl.org/calvinism/study/acts-13-48/pt-1.htm

I think this is an adequate explanation. certainly does better than I could do.

1 timothy 1:16 those who are going to believe...

This does not cotradict verse in question (His will that none should perish) because it simply allows the fact that there are some who will go through life and not believe.

John 17 as many as You have given

does not contradict if it is seen as God giving the individual to Jesus when the person accepts the calling of the Holy Spirit.

John 6:40 I believe reiterates my point and verse forty-four gives more credence to the interpretation seen in the above link for acts.

These scriptures can be interpreted to not contradict - His will that none should perish, but I do not believe that these scriptures if taken as your interpretation can have the same said of them. The positively go against His will.

God bless

[Guest daddy]

jamie,

you mentioned in your post that god revealed you the truth of his salvation.

i was wondering if you knew how to discern god's voice?satan does appear as an angel of light.

if god said it then that settles the truth of salvation.